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That's another thing: why would coders want to live in high cost of living areas like Dallas, the Bay Area, NYC, etc when they could live and work a lot cheaper in Bloomington/Normal? And why would the company want to move to higher cost of living areas where they'd have to pay more unless they were planning to replace Americans with cheap labor foreigners to offset the costs?
Most ambitious tech folks today are looking to the major coastal cities for the best opportunities. The high COL is the price you have pay for being 'close to the action' where the startup culture and latest technologies and advancements are being made. That's why you see companies like Walmart opening 'Lab' offices in these cities, because the brightest minds in these emerging technologies are not willing to relocate to Bentonville, AR or some other rural HQ.
Look, there are brilliant coders in the US, India, China, Eastern Europe and pretty much everywhere across the world. No one country has a monopoly on IT talent. India and, to a lesser degree, China have done well in this space because - at a national level - they recognize the importance of instilling knowledge of the so-called 'hard sciences' from an early age in the public schools. I can virtually guarantee that many of the poorest schools in India are teaching mathematical concepts to kids at a much higher level than some of the nicest, suburban US schools. India and China do not subscribe to US ideas like 'No Child Left Behind' where teaching has to be tailored to accommodate the poorest-performing student. I've met shopkeepers in India who have a better grasp of mathematics than some of my post-grad friends who pursued liberal arts, and that's not their fault, it's just the way things are here.
Yes, the H1B process is exploitative to both Americans and the visa holders. It primarily benefits the large employers who can exploit the lower cost work without the commitment of hiring full time employees. But at the same time, the program is casting light on some major gaps in the US education system that are simply failing to equip students (especially female and minority) at an elementary level with the hard skills needed to succeed in today's careers in science and technology. We can (and should) catch up with the rest of the world in terms of what we teach in school. In 2018, vague ideas like 'getting a degree in management' are simply not cutting it any more for the vast majority of college degrees. Most employers, even outside of the IT industry are now demanding specific, technical skills and are looking for a demonstration of them during interviews. We should recognize this and work to ensure US students aren't left behind in the (now) international competition for jobs.
There are Indians there, but State Farm has been pretty careful about keeping them limited. State Farm is still actively hiring American coders, which, as I said, was a major reason for locating hubs outside of Bloomington. Really, the primary hiring by State Farm right now is coders and call-takers.
And I wasn't kidding about how hard it is to get good young coders to move to Bloomington.
I'm not talking about Bloomington. I'm in the DFW area...I'm only talking about the State Farm offices here. I have no idea what's going on in Bloomington.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky
Most ambitious tech folks today are looking to the major coastal cities for the best opportunities. The high COL is the price you have pay for being 'close to the action' where the startup culture and latest technologies and advancements are being made. That's why you see companies like Walmart opening 'Lab' offices in these cities, because the brightest minds in these emerging technologies are not willing to relocate to Bentonville, AR or some other rural HQ.
Look, there are brilliant coders in the US, India, China, Eastern Europe and pretty much everywhere across the world. No one country has a monopoly on IT talent. India and, to a lesser degree, China have done well in this space because - at a national level - they recognize the importance of instilling knowledge of the so-called 'hard sciences' from an early age in the public schools. I can virtually guarantee that many of the poorest schools in India are teaching mathematical concepts to kids at a much higher level than some of the nicest, suburban US schools. India and China do not subscribe to US ideas like 'No Child Left Behind' where teaching has to be tailored to accommodate the poorest-performing student. I've met shopkeepers in India who have a better grasp of mathematics than some of my post-grad friends who pursued liberal arts, and that's not their fault, it's just the way things are here.
Yes, the H1B process is exploitative to both Americans and the visa holders. It primarily benefits the large employers who can exploit the lower cost work without the commitment of hiring full time employees. But at the same time, the program is casting light on some major gaps in the US education system that are simply failing to equip students (especially female and minority) at an elementary level with the hard skills needed to succeed in today's careers in science and technology. We can (and should) catch up with the rest of the world in terms of what we teach in school. In 2018, vague ideas like 'getting a degree in management' are simply not cutting it any more for the vast majority of college degrees. Most employers, even outside of the IT industry are now demanding specific, technical skills and are looking for a demonstration of them during interviews. We should recognize this and work to ensure US students aren't left behind in the (now) international competition for jobs.
And yet here I am...with a liberal arts degree...kicking butt in the database space...cleaning up the messes the "math geniuses" with master's degrees in comp sci make. You don't need a degree in computer science to do this job. You don't even need high school calculus. You DO need the ability to think critically and creatively, though.
I'm not talking about Bloomington. I'm in the DFW area...I'm only talking about the State Farm offices here. I have no idea what's going on in Bloomington..
It's one company with one plan. The Systems campus at Bloomington is as large as a large university--in fact, the Systems campus at Bloomington is larger than the State Farm CityLine hub in Dallas.
The company had long had a problem getting enough coders to Bloomington. Up until 10 years or so ago, the plan had been to home-grow coders. They had a relationship with the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana whereby State Farm paid for programming training for employees.
They also hired military programmers like crazy (State Farm makes a really big deal about its veteran employees--even asking them to wear their uniforms to work on Veterans Day. Since the beginning of the Iraq War, State Farm has made sure that Reservist employees maintain their wage levels and have their jobs waiting for them while they are deployed).
State Farm has brought on "externals" when they've failed to get enough coders, but always shed the externals whenever possible. The basic small-town conservative midwest mindset of State Farm was that foreigners weren't really welcomed. Don't forget that State Farm is not a stockholder company, it's a mutual company that was founded and has been run by conservative Republicans mostly born and raised in central Illinois. These are Trump voters.
But to solve a number of problems, it was decided that State Farm had to branch out to the hubs, and the ability to hire more American coders was a huge factor in that decision. It's why they pushed so many of the coding jobs out to the hubs (and that's only been in the last three years).
At this point, they're shedding higher-income non-technical people from the Bloomington staff. It's the non-technical managers and non-technical people who have been there 25-plus years who are getting asked to find new jobs.
It's one company with one plan. The Systems campus at Bloomington is as large as a large university--in fact, the Systems campus at Bloomington is larger than the State Farm CityLine hub in Dallas.
The company had long had a problem getting enough coders to Bloomington. Up until 10 years or so ago, the plan had been to home-grow coders. They had a relationship with the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana whereby State Farm paid for programming training for employees.
They also hired military programmers like crazy (State Farm makes a really big deal about its veteran employees--even asking them to wear their uniforms to work on Veterans Day. Since the beginning of the Iraq War, State Farm has made sure that Reservist employees maintain their wage levels and have their jobs waiting for them while they are deployed).
State Farm has brought on "externals" when they've failed to get enough coders, but always shed the externals whenever possible. The basic small-town conservative midwest mindset of State Farm was that foreigners weren't really welcomed. Don't forget that State Farm is not a stockholder company, it's a mutual company that was founded and has been run by conservative Republicans mostly born and raised in central Illinois. These are Trump voters.
But to solve a number of problems, it was decided that State Farm had to branch out to the hubs, and the ability to hire more American coders was a huge factor in that decision. It's why they pushed so many of the coding jobs out to the hubs (and that's only been in the last three years).
At this point, they're shedding higher-income non-technical people from the Bloomington staff. It's the non-technical managers and non-technical people who have been there 25-plus years who are getting asked to find new jobs.
They usually get a choice of a severance package or another job...if they're willing to relocate on their own dimes for it.
Four years ago, State Farm was making paid relocation offers to the hubs, but did I mention that most of the Bloomington people had been born and raised in that area? So those who refused paid relocation four years ago are facing a hard choice now.
They usually get a choice of a severance package or another job...if they're willing to relocate on their own dimes for it.
Four years ago, State Farm was making paid relocation offers to the hubs, but did I mention that most of the Bloomington people had been born and raised in that area? So those who refused paid relocation four years ago are facing a hard choice now.
If those alternatives are only being given to those with 25 years in, that basically makes all those people over the age of 40. If people under forty are not being given the same choices it is discriminatory.
If those alternatives are only being given to those with 25 years in, that basically makes all those people over the age of 40. If people under forty are not being given the same choices it is discriminatory.
Not when it's actually more role-directed. Note that I said non-technical people. Those people do have the option of posting for technical jobs that they may be qualified for.
What's happening is that the roles are going away. They aren't hiring younger people for the same roles, the roles are going away--those roles being primarily non-technical managerial non-managerial roles like "Level Three Business Analyst."
Not when it's actually more role-directed. Note that I said non-technical people. Those people do have the option of posting for technical jobs that they may be qualified for.
What's happening is that the roles are going away. They aren't hiring younger people for the same roles, the roles are going away--those roles being primarily non-technical managerial non-managerial roles like "Level Three Business Analyst."
Once again, if the same choices are not being given to people under the age of forty doing the same work it is patently discriminatory.
It is hard to miss the inconsistencies between the sentiment expressed and actions. There are posters expressing unhappiness with these companies reducing their cost of delivery. Yet, the same posters happily switch to a different company for small decrease in premiums. And, it is not just insurance - most of the cheap things we buy in, say, Wal-Mart are made by foreign workers and imported. And, I am sure you (or your mutual fund manager) strongly prefer the companies making most profits. So, something has go give.
Unless you (and a lot more alongside you) are willing to back your sentiment with a price premium for the services from insurers (or other companies in other areas) that conform to your preference on this topic, this will continue. The companies are behaving in a manner that is rational, it is the critics that do not back words with actions.
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