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It doesn't work that way. References are an important part of the hiring process. As a candidate you should be happy to provide references. If you're not, I probably don't want to hire you.
Not quite. References are important after you have been interviewed, not before. You don't want these people bothered until you know you're at the point of getting an offer.
I'm a senior and references have always been a problem for me. Not because I don't have good ones but because I don't have ANY. I am an introvert and have never had more than one friend at a time (and those have lasted a long time, usually until I moved, after which time we always lost touch), and I don't go to church and I don't join clubs. I also have no close relatives. Also, the jobs I have had have not resulted in any outside-of-work coworker relationships, other than my husband. (We worked together for almost two years before he asked me out, and we have now been married for over 30 years.)
Fortunately, my prior job references have all been excellent, I have a very good resume with a stable work history, and, I have been told that I interview well, so I have never, to my knowledge, not been offered a job just because of lack of references. My view is that if someone doesn't hire someone due to a lack of friend or relative references, they might be losing out on a very good employee.
P.S. I have never even understood the need for friend/relative references. Do employees think that any friend or close relative is going to tell them that you are a bad person and would probably make a bad employee? Even if they ask what is your worst trait, there is going to be a good chance that they say something that wouldn't even apply to the job they are applying for (and they will know what will be important to someone hiring for a sales position as opposed to an engineering position, for example).
Last edited by katharsis; 08-08-2018 at 04:08 PM..
So you are applying for a job that isn't hiring yet? Write on the application "references provided on request"
I don't think anyone said the employer "wasn't hiring yet." When you fill out an application you don't know whether they're actually hiring or not.
If you want a shot at the job -- fill out the application the way they ask.
You want to give someone a heads up and ask them to be a reference (or let them know you put them down as reference). Fine. Ask them when you start job hunting or when you see the opening. Then, put their info on the application.
Personally, I'd put reference contact info on an application before I put my SSN, or OK a credit check.
This. If you are so secretive or high maintenance that you refuse to comply with some standardized hiring procedure's reasonable requests for information, I might infer that you have something to hide, no one WOULD provide you with a positive recommendation, or you are simply going to be too much trouble to cater to.
I've never heard of "wearing out" a reference. I always ask permission to use someone as a reference and have never ever heard that this turned out to be a burden. They usually thought of it as a compliment and a minor pleasure. I always choose a personal reference who can provide a slightly different perspective on me as a person and a professional than some previous direct supervisor might. There can be limits or company policies about what a supervisor can say about someone.
You most certainly can, depending on how busy the person is. That's why you don't want to give out references(mine were always former bosses one who was a VP), great person but I didn't want to give her name and number out(in addition to having to contact them to give them a heads up) unless the interview process was getting to the point where the references were the deal maker.
Just like any other scenario you don't want to take advantage or overuse someone who is doing you a favor like this.
And you certainly don't want them called for some sales pitch, disguised as a reference check.
I do and often. I'm a reference for many people, but some who have applied for everything and stupidly given them references from the start have pestered me so much, I have asked those people either not to list me as their reference or not to give the references to them until much later on in the process. I'm not interested in talking on the phone for 20 minutes to everyone who works in HR that has time to kill.
^^ This is what people are missing
It's not saying no to providing them. For some professional jobs out there, you provide your references towards the end of the job seeking process. NOT at the very start.
I've had one case where I was looking for work, and an ex-manager called and congratulated me for the new job. I was confused. He clarified he got a call from company X. I told him all I did was submit an application. No interview with the hiring company was made (I went through a 3rd party recruiter/hiring firm). He got annoyed asking why they wasted his time when I wasn't even a candidate, let alone one still in contention. He also mentioned they tried using him to seek new job leads. Lesson learned. Say that you won't give out prof. ref. until towards the end of the process. If they press, tell them your prof. ref. are too valuable to peeve off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis
P.S. I have never even understood the need for friend/relative references. Do employees think that any friend or close relative is going to tell them that you are a bad person and would probably make a bad employee? Even if they ask what is your worst trait, there is going to be a good chance that they say something that wouldn't even apply to the job they are applying for (and they will know what will be important to someone hiring for a sales position as opposed to an engineering position, for example).
Some places will limit this to saying they want "professional references". Here, it's people you've worked with. You can't count your mom or brother unless they were with while you were coding up that new web page, or on the lumberyard building that house. Some go even further and say "managerial level professional references", so it's gotta be one of your superiors of a workplace.
Even then, many places wouldn't allow references that are family nor friends due to even greater biases. I met one girl who did a great job and wants to pursue new work, but the current company she works with is run by her father. Since her father is her boss, she can't really use him as a professional reference.
The places that do? They're probably in a different environment where soft and social skills play a more important role, and they can go with that. Otherwise, some places understand that you're starting off in your career and may not have much other than friends and family.
In the end, some places may accept f&f in lieu of workplace ones, or not even bother. They forget, or they're impressed enough with your interview, meeting you, and/or portfolio that they're willing to take a chance.
I was looking over job postings and there's a college near my house that i've seen a few openings at that I'd be interested in. Everytime I go to apply I am asked to enter in 3 references:
Please list your references (not related to you) who can verify your work habits and experience.
3 References Pending:
They want 3. I'm sorry but this seems weird? I'll give you my reference info at the end of the process when you're about to hire me. I mean the form doesn't just ask for names, it asks for email and phone # and wont let you submit the application unless you complete this info. This is a small no named college, i've applied to harvard and mit jobs where they dont ask this.
What gives? why would they require this info so soon?
Every app I filled out or every resume I handed in was with references. Sometimes the interviewer will just glance at them or actually call one. Don't leave questions unanswered on an application. If a question does not apply to you, type in N/A.
I was looking over job postings and there's a college near my house that i've seen a few openings at that I'd be interested in. Everytime I go to apply I am asked to enter in 3 references:
Please list your references (not related to you) who can verify your work habits and experience.
3 References Pending:
They want 3. I'm sorry but this seems weird? I'll give you my reference info at the end of the process when you're about to hire me. I mean the form doesn't just ask for names, it asks for email and phone # and wont let you submit the application unless you complete this info. This is a small no named college, i've applied to harvard and mit jobs where they dont ask this.
What gives? why would they require this info so soon?
I never provide it until they are looking to make an offer.
I have no problem giving references when the timing is right. My issue here is that i am simply trying to apply to the role and the application asks for names, titles, phone #'s and email's of 3 references and does not let one proceed with the application if all of these details are not provided.
Some folks seem to think I'm strange for feeling uncomfortable providing emails and names of my references at this point. IT seems invasive to ask for people's names and phone numbers at the first application point without even having a phone screen?
Sorry but i'm not applying to this role. I have nothing to hide but this seems a bit much. I've interviewed at much more esteemed places without having to provide this info so soon in the process.
It's an online application. It doesn't care who your references are. It's for HR so they have all info at once. Annoying, yes. Big deal, no.
It's an online application. It doesn't care who your references are. It's for HR so they have all info at once. Annoying, yes. Big deal, no.
But YOU need to care who your references are, and not just give out their information so freely.
These are people who are willing to go to bat for you and take time out of their schedule to help you, that means you show some appreciation and be respectful as to who has their information.
It could be a very big deal if they start getting calls when you're not even being seriously considered for the position(as has already been mentioned) or are solicited for business, and they tell you please no longer put me down as reference.
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Lesson learned. Say that you won't give out prof. ref. until towards the end of the process. If they press, tell them your prof. ref. are too valuable to peeve off.
