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Education, yes. But a degree, especially an engineering degree has quite a dear market value. So cheating is perhaps the rational thing to do (instead of flunking out). If you get caught cheating, maybe they ask you to leave. But you lose out on perhaps millions if you don't get your degree.
And how are they going to get through an interview if they don't know their stuff? You are leaving out that important step in the career process. Interviewing and being able to demonstrate the knowledge in an interview is key. They aren't going to look at your transcripts and say, "Everything seems to be in order. Here is a starting salary of $100K a year, a corner office with a window, and you will get 20% bonus and stock options too." They have interviewing screening by HR, then by someone technical, and then 2 or 3 rounds of in-person, skype or phone interviews plus a background check, references and drug testing before you even would get an offer. And even if you managed to "cheat" your way through all of this, you can't get by on a smile without knowing your stuff once there and doing the work. Getting the degree is not an end goal and you are set for life.
The difference between getting an engineering degree and not getting one millions of dollars?
LMAO. Oh my god. Thank you so much. Funniest thing Ive heard all year...
Yup!
*beep* *beep* *beep*, "You just finished your engineering degree. The Brinks truck is here with your lifetime supply of easy money. Thank you for playing the engineer degree lottery, you have won!".
If you want a job making 150k sitting on your ass, those do exist, but getting them is more about whom you know than your degree.
Many people in engineering think those in sales do nothing but sit around and collect huge commissions. They never see the work. So having contacts for a job is important, but you actually have to do the work once you get there.
There is a warning in one of my software engineering texts about the dangers of calling yourself an engineer if you are a software developer.
But getting back to cheating, I think it would be easier to cheat in computer science/information systems since the type of classwork required is more adaptable for cheating and there is no certification exam to go through like for certified engineers and accountants. You get your degree and are ready to go.
Engineering is engineering. The field of software is new compared to Mechanical, but that doesn't mean software engineering isn't engineering. Scientific, Mathematical, and Engineering concepts applied to software makes it software engineering if you are doing that kind of work. If you are writing software to produce reports for payroll systems, that is not engineering, just like changing a lightbulb isn't Electrical Engineering. A software developer is a software engineer if they are working on that kind of work. That statement from the textbook you are referring to is either nonsense or taken out of context. Can you give a citation for the author and title of the textbook?
There are certifications for software and IT people, if they are required for the job, not all jobs require them or even need them. There is so much demand in software that not everyone is going to be writing device drivers and operating systems for a new generation of hardware, or embedded code for processors for medical devices and diagnostic equipment.
Upper management in most companies don't have the technical skills to get into the weeds, and to be honest, they don't want to know the details. So pictures and diagrams at a high-level are needed to explain the concepts. The thing is, provided they know what they are proposing is possible and have verified that it is with those who would be doing the work, that's OK.
I have known people who hide behind that to avoid doing any of the technical work though, because most technical people aren't interested in doing presentations and speaking to upper management. And to be fair, it is just human nature to want to have someone around that explains things in a way you can understand which is what management likes.
I remember them doing these surveys at the company of the technical staff, and their big complaint was that they felt management a couple levels above them and higher didn't really understand their work. The thing is, they didn't need to, it was their job to manage the department not be able to work along side with each engineer.
Yes, we all understand this. But please understand there is a big difference between pictures and diagrams that explain a concept vs pictures and diagrams that have no real meaning. I work in a field where people have died and the failure decision tree traces back through PowerPoints where the engineering meaning was changed because the illustrations were changed to be more friendly to the non technical executives.
There's a difference between someone who explains things in a way management can easily understand and someone who explains things correctly. Unfortunately too often management likes the easy over the correct.
As some folks have mentioned, you have to pass the Fundamentals of Engineering examination and Professional Engineers examination to become a true registered professional engineer and be able to use the title.
When I worked in the field before retiring, as a supervisor I would not hire anyone who did not at the least pass the Fundamentals of Engineering examination.
At my undergraduate engineering college, our professors told us if we could not pass the FE examination, we should sue the college for an inadequate education (but our passing rate was one of the highest in the nation at 98% or so).
maybe laws have changed but most states in the mid-atlantic state that one can advertise their servicss as an electrical, mechanical, civil with a bs from an accredited university. someone posted the statute so looking for it.
specifically at lockheed, their job postings for electrical engineer in avionics 1 lists t.l.s. clearance but not p.e.
maybe laws have changed but most states in the mid-atlantic state that one can advertise their servicss as an electrical, mechanical, civil with a bs from an accredited university. someone posted the statute so looking for it.
specifically at lockheed, their job postings for electrical engineer in avionics 1 lists t.l.s. clearance but not p.e.
Could be that so long as the person putting their stamp on it has the PE, it doesn't matter if anyone else does. I know there are a lot of offices that work that way. Way cheaper than paying for everyone to have the PE license. In fact most of the PE's I know have let their license lapse because it meant nothing in their actual work, but cost a pretty penny to keep current.
maybe laws have changed but most states in the mid-atlantic state that one can advertise their servicss as an electrical, mechanical, civil with a bs from an accredited university. someone posted the statute so looking for it.
specifically at lockheed, their job postings for electrical engineer in avionics 1 lists t.l.s. clearance but not p.e.
I do not disagree with what you wrote, but you can not use the terms "registered engineer", "professional engineer", or "registered professional engineer" without having passed the PE examination and having your license fees up to date. I have a PE in several states, and they are all the same. In states where I have a retired license, I can use the term "professional engineer - retired" (and yes, I still had to pay a fee to retire a license).
I used to verify registration either as a FE or PE by asking to see a copy of the person's certificate (and if need be, looking up the certificate number on the state's website).
I do not disagree with what you wrote, but you can not use the terms "registered engineer", "professional engineer", or "registered professional engineer" without having passed the PE examination and having your license fees up to date. I have a PE in several states, and they are all the same. In states where I have a retired license, I can use the term "professional engineer - retired" (and yes, I still had to pay a fee to retire a license).
I used to verify registration either as a FE or PE by asking to see a copy of the person's certificate (and if need be, looking up the certificate number on the state's website).
Reminds me of a fantasy I have of appearing before Judge Judy. "Ms. Ounce, are you a professional diver?"
"Yes, your honor, by at least one measure."
"What measure would that be?"
"That I have to buy liability insurance."
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