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Old 11-06-2018, 01:13 PM
 
3,185 posts, read 2,379,718 times
Reputation: 6301

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
I suspect this manager wanted to think about the situation to further crunch the numbers to see what it would cost the company in unemployment if the OP was eligible. And maybe consultant with someone to see if she can be fired "for cause" so they don't have to pay unemployment for refusing this insanely stupid situation. Also to see who else could cover for the OP if she won't be there.

This is a really bad manager for a number of reasons. I had a co-worker years ago who had an eating disorder, and needed special accommodations that many people would ignore saying he had to eat what everyone else was eating or not eat at all. But the company took this into consideration, they didn't force the issue and the solution didn't have an additional cost.

For those that don't know, a good manager, who for whatever reason thought two to a room was reasonable, would have asked the OP, "Is there a problem with sharing a room for you?". And all the OP would have to say, "Yes, there is" and that would be it. They would explore different accommodations and whatever restrictions they might have in doing so. If the manager had a valid reason the OP must share the room and in the doom, it would have been made clear. And I'm just guessing, like the client was going to have some of their team there within that group of rooms and they would be working on the projects together solid for 12 hours a day that week or whatever. The manager could have also suggested they ask the client (higher education) if another room could be made available for just one person for the OP. But to force the issue with no logic or explanation to this is just wrong and it reeks of a hidden agenda towards reducing staff by giving he OP a reason to go find another job, because they don't have long-term work for her.
The OP can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the problem was Dorm and not sharing a room. She said in later posts she didn't want to share a room but was willing to do so when she thought it was an apartment type room as in one bedroom bath and living area but when she found out it was a one bedroom dorm with attached bathroom she panicked and rightly so given her history. Perhaps on the last go around the OP should have stated that she had personal issues with Dorm rooms due to an experience as a college student and didn't want to go into it but she could not stay in a dorm room, shared room or not, because it would trigger PSTD. If the woman still persisted, the OP should have just said that is not possible, where do we go from here and leave it to her to suggest resign or fire.

Given that, the statement made by the OP may or may not be construed as resigning. She needs to speak with an attorney.

 
Old 11-06-2018, 01:19 PM
 
3,185 posts, read 2,379,718 times
Reputation: 6301
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanyBelle View Post
My call went okay, they said they will not contest if/when I try to collect unemployment.

I was not angry during the call, I just told them I was disappointed. I do believe since I treated them professionally during the call and said I would not take this anywhere, they were civil to me. Could I have made their lives more miserable? Possibly, but I'm not the sue happy type of person. I am more the "karma will bite you in the butt" type of person.

I'm happy to be out of there! Well hopefully I receive my forthcoming pay/vacation pay/bonus pay next week!

Thanks to everyone who politely discussed this with me.
Glad it all worked out for you. You may want to get some help though in discussing what happened to you 30 years ago so that this type of situation doesn't make you feel that you can't explain why something makes you uncomfortable. It wasn't your fault.
 
Old 11-06-2018, 01:27 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,062,989 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
The OP never resigned. The OP did make arrangements and told that to the manager, didn't you read that? Again, the OP didn't resign. You also didn't pay attention to what the OP was saying, the business ran out of work, and since this manager was forcing an unreasonable issue, most intelligent people can see what is happening and don't want to play the game. Asking if you want me to resign is not the same as offering your resignation. The OP simply asked the manager a question. You are manufacturing something that simply isn't there.

Where did the OP ask it as a question? What I read in post #1 was a statement, tell me if you want my resignation. I can't see any legitimate reason to make such statement if one wasn't going to give the resignation. We could parse words all day but we won't be the ones to decide what they meant. Either way, throwing out the "resignation" word escalated things, and if there was any room left for negotiation it ended there. It essentially sent the message that this issue was a dealbreaker.
 
Old 11-06-2018, 03:40 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,682,649 times
Reputation: 22079
The OP is a lesson to everyone.

Asking if they want your resignation is a resignation.

Never threaten to resign or to quit, to put your desire ahead of what the company is offering. Doing so to put pressure on the employer, is not acceptable.

Threaten to quit, or resign, and you are out the door. This is one of the things taught in management classes, as if you give in to keep the employee, it will no longer be the manager in charge, but the employee that made the threat will now be in charge. Actually this is one of the major thing that is taught to management personnel.

Over the years, I have had employees put that kind of pressure on me when I was their manager, and know of many other managers that had it done to them. In every case, the person was out of a job.

If you give in to the employee, you are no longer the one running the job, and this employee once winning the upper hand, will forever be a problem employee.

Any good manager, will accept the threat, just as the OP's manager did.

The posters that are saying she did not resign, know nothing about how things work in the real world. Once an employee makes such a treat or offer, they are gone, as the OP found out. And if goes to a court case, the employer will win.

The OP is very lucky, that the employer let her know, that she will be able to file for unemployment, and they will not oppose it.

When checking reference checks, when asking a former employer about the employee, the standard question is: Would you hire this person back? When the answer is a strong NO, that person is no longer in consideration for the job. This is a legitimate and legal question, and no other question is really needed for job applicants. The OP knows, she is not going to be hired back by that employer.
 
Old 11-06-2018, 03:51 PM
 
4,633 posts, read 3,432,267 times
Reputation: 6322
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
This is one of the things taught in management classes, as if you give in to keep the employee, it will no longer be the manager in charge, but the employee that made the threat will now be in charge. Actually this is one of the major thing that is taught to management personnel.

This is definitely the mentality of "new school" management, and I think it's a huge problem. The employee is only in charge if you let him/her be in charge. Drawing a line in the sand, especially when you are wrong, can cause you more problems than they're worth. The OP's manager did not handle this well at all, and they are honestly lucky she isn't litigious, because this little stunt might have cost them a lot more. Compromise means each side is giving something up in the name of cooperation. If you approach negotiations with a view that there must be a clear winner or clear loser, you have already lost. I was in a situation where the management team was absolutely wrong and upper management knew it. They must have taken those same management classes that you did. The funny thing is, there was someone on their team who was a solutions-oriented, "let's work this out" person, and their efforts definitely made me more willing to compromise. Unfortunately their subordinates undermined their efforts in a major way. I went from really disliking this employer to figuratively wanting their head on a platter. The subordinates completely torpedoed all positive efforts, which was funny because the entire situation was their fault. The management classes you're taking are the reason lawyers stay in business.
 
Old 11-06-2018, 04:13 PM
 
10,583 posts, read 12,004,202 times
Reputation: 16726
Quote:
Never threaten to resign or to quit, to put your desire ahead of what the company is offering. Doing so to put pressure on the employer, is not acceptable.

Threaten to quit, or resign, and you are out the door. This is one of the things taught in management classes, as if you give in to keep the employee, it will no longer be the manager in charge, but the employee that made the threat will now be in charge. Actually this is one of the major thing that is taught to management personnel.

Over the years, I have had employees put that kind of pressure on me when I was their manager, and know of many other managers that had it done to them. In every case, the person was out of a job.

If you give in to the employee, you are no longer the one running the job, and this employee once winning the upper hand, will forever be a problem employee.
I don't agree. But we're all entitled to our opinion.

It's not about egos. There is no reason the manager can't say, "No I don't want you to resign. Why don't we try to work this out." A manager is less of a manager if s/he says s/he doesn't want to lose a good staffer?
 
Old 11-06-2018, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,454 posts, read 1,497,387 times
Reputation: 2106
I think it sounds lousy and like you said "I feel like she is using this hotel issue to get rid of me because the company doesn't have any billable work for me in my area. And she is saying I resigned so I can't collect unemployment. BTW, she isn't in HR, she's in sales."

If you care-put it in writing the way it happened. You should seriously consider fighting to be considered fired and get benefits because she sounds sloppy as heck. I would not do as she says. I cannot fathom why your hotel idea would be turned down. That is weird and unprofessional.
 
Old 11-06-2018, 05:02 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,062,989 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
The OP's manager did not handle this well at all, and they are honestly lucky she isn't litigious, because this little stunt might have cost them a lot more.

I agree but the mistake wasn't treating the statement as a resignation but in making an unreasonable requirement of the employee.
 
Old 11-06-2018, 07:14 PM
 
37,447 posts, read 45,643,588 times
Reputation: 56860
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
The client requested it and the employer agreed. Then when they told the contracted employee that was the case, the contracted employee gave the employer her offer of a resignation. I hope you guys don't play poker much. You throw down way to quickly.

That said, does her contract include the written ability to secure her own lodging? The person she would share the room with is another employee, so not really a stranger - even if they never met. Maybe if she has some acceptable religious reason why she should not share a room - but any of that was negated the moment she offered her resignation. If they kept the text, she quit the job.
Huh?
 
Old 11-07-2018, 03:10 AM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,682,649 times
Reputation: 22079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post
And when did you ask to see the contract on this particular account task?
Our tech employees were given copies so they knew exactly what they were allowed to do...what was covered and who to report to when on premise.
If the 'stipend' for hotel , travel is listed ..then usually the employee is on their own if they upgrade or change proximity.
My company worked with govt along with private. .our staff didn't have a problem sharing rooms. Most knew they slept..worked..then back on a plane. Only a few got to enjoy a few days on their own tab if they wanted to tour the city. The contractor only cared that the tasks got completed and the contract terms were fair on each side.

I find your employer to be a bit closed door in not allowing you to read the contract and work out an arrangement that doesn't directly relate to the contracted technical work.
As always..the legal needs left to the qualified.
The employee has no business in seeing the contract. It is never made available to the employees. And this is true if it is a small employer like the OP worked for, or one with thousands of employees.

And you still do not get it. When an employee threatens to resign like the OP did trying to get her way, the employer accepts it as a resignation just as her employer did. That is taught in management courses, as far back when I first took management classes 60 years ago, same as it is today. Threaten the employer in any way, and you are out of there.
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