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The OP wasn't set up. He knew he was an entry level beginner. The company gave him a shot based on what the OP said he could do. Giving opportunities is now wrong?
It was wrong for them not to properly assess the OP's abilities. With good management it would very rare to fire someone who couldn't handle the work.
Let me add, as per usual, that lying about the real reasons why one was fired is never a good idea.
This is assuming the OP actually knows the truth of why they were fired. Perhaps they were going over budget sooner than they expected and in a panic fired the OP. You can't really know the real reason because they won't tell you the truth if it makes the management look bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy
Despite what people here continue to believe, there are NO laws that prohibit a former employer from giving the real reasons why someone was fired, so long as it is true and not meant to be malicious to deliberately derail an applicant's job hunt chances. Sure, SOME companies may not divulge all information, but that doesn't mean ALL companies do not say more than dates of employment due to a fear of some mythical lawsuit.
In reality, no one is going to answer the phone or speak to anyone there that the OP worked with unless the OP was foolish enough to give them their contact information. This is out-sourced to a third-party that only gives dates of employment and if they their separation was voluntary or involuntary. There are no notes to talk about the employee's performance or why they left. If it says involuntary, the employee either was fired, part of a layoff. If it says voluntary it means they resigned. That's it.
As for lawsuits, there is no rule about their actions, because there is no mechanism in place when a lawsuit is filed for it to be determine or not, that is what the court is for. So before you start talking about you can't get sued, hiring an attorney and having it dragged out in court until you may even win is still something both parties want to avoid. This is not a TV show where it gets resolved in an hour. It takes years. Employer's aren't interested in litigation. So they don't take a risk, because they are running a business and there is nothing to gain by spreading gossip about employees. Which is why these third-party companies exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy
So again, lie (or spin) your situation as much as you want, but just hope that the company you are applying to doesn't dig much into your employment history if you want to game the system this way.
They aren't going to be digging because there is no place for them to dig. You give references (not supervisors) for jobs and dates of employment if asked as part of a background check. Again, this isn't a TV show with a Super Computer where the girl with tattoos and body piercings pounds on a keyboard and magically everything they want to know comes up. If you don't think so, run a background check on yourself and see how little information is really there regarding work history.
Just take responsibility for your actions. Did you ask for a job description? Did you inquire about expectations?
No, you aren't a fake developer. Coming straight out of the boot camp, you are still a novice developer. You overestimated your abilities. Kindergarten vs grad school.
And in typical C-D fashion, it is always the employee's fault. The company never makes mistakes. If if doesn't work out, the employee is flawed. I've worked in software and IT for many years now, and I have selected interns from resumes and interviews, and given them assignments and they all completely them successfully. When some graduated, when they applied we offered them jobs. As a hiring manager I have also had new college graduates who I mentored and were successful too. This is because we know how to select people for the job and give them the right training. Management knew the OP only went through a 3 month programming bootcamp. Anyone with half a brain knows they can't be up to the task of an experienced developer or software engineer. But the company was trying to save money, and they failed. I don't see blame here for the OP. Going from zero to sixty in 3 months doesn't prepare you for a real hardcode software job, that takes much more training than that. Sure, I can learn a new programming language in 2 weeks and be very useful in it, because I have been doing software development successfully for a very long time. Someone entirely new to development can't be expected to perform that well so quickly.
To the OP, don't let this ruin your career. You were there for a short period of time. Improve your skills while you decide what you want to do next. Gather good references, and not from any of the former supervisors and move on. Say that the requirements for your job changed and since you didn't have the experience they now needed yet, they let you go. That's all there is to it. Any intelligent hiring manager isn't going to insist to talk to your former supervisor so don't offer it up.
Sorry this happened to you, but it isn't the end of the world. Just don't dwell on it in interviews and communications for a new job.
It was a mistake for a start-up to hire entry level talent. Even as big as Netflix is now, they STILL, ONLY hire Senior Software Engineers.
Yes, I wouldn't hire someone who only had a software bootcamp as their only training and experience for a full time developer role. Even the interns from college have years of computer courses and have done an interesting project or two by then.
I like this option. Or offshored. Or there was a change in direction and they needed different language skills. Anything that implies a layoff rather than being let go.
And in typical C-D fashion, it is always the employee's fault. The company never makes mistakes. If if doesn't work out, the employee is flawed.
I didn't say any of that.
Funny thing, when I apply for a job, I like it when I get hired. After all, I saw the job posting, read it, and applied. I initiated the whole thing. The company didn't chase me down and force me into a job.
Bad, bad company for hiring me???? Bad, bad company for giving me a chance to rise to the occasion and succeed?
From the company's perspective, it was a bad hire and they will need to examine their hiring practices. HOWEVER, it is inappropriate for the employee to blame the employer for giving them a shot.
How many posts do we see from job seekers begging for just a shot at a job.
It's not about blame. It's about owning your actions.
As far as how to explain this, the OP can choose to be a liar if they want. That's their integrity.
Last edited by charlygal; 03-07-2019 at 07:15 AM..
I was thinking about leaving them off the resume, but as a first job I feel like it would be better to show that I gained some experience (rather than sitting around doing nothing) and spin my exit from the company as has been mentioned so far. They also did mention they liked me and I could use them as a reference if needed, though not sure if that would be a good idea or not.
The job was definitely a bit over my head and there was virtually no job description when I applied (it now asks for a senior developer). They didn't know what they were looking for and essentially took a gamble in the hopes of training me up and building a team in the local office, only to realize they don't have the resources or time to devote to junior developers. Also, they started hiring developers in another office overseas for a fraction of what they were paying me. Maybe I could state they were low on funds and decided to move the development team over there where it's cheaper?
Many start-ups are trying to survive long enough until the next infusion of cash by their investors. You would have seen this a mile away by searching startups in /r/cscareerquestions in Reddit.
You took this boot camp without any clear direction of your next steps. It's time to do some information gathering. Go to https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/ and search the existing threads on what boot camp graduates should be doing.
Yes, I wouldn't hire someone who only had a software bootcamp as their only training and experience for a full time developer role. Even the interns from college have years of computer courses and have done an interesting project or two by then.
I’ve been through coding boot camps. And unless your sole job will be writing Python code to accomplish the same thing as a mail merge does in Microsoft Word, you will arrive underprepared if the boot camp is your sole source of your expertise.
As a member of a far flung planet in the tech industry (telecom) I can confidently say OP needs to work on actual enterprise level, real work. College kids are a shoe in for internships, boot campers are left out in the cold when it comes to that.
If paying for a full time 4 year program is impractical, seek out a state school that has a placement program and coordinate any tuition reimbursement from your next employer. This might mean taking a student loan to “float” the money for registration, then paying it off 6 months later with your reimbursement check. Just try not to carry debt from semester to semester.
How many posts do we see from job seekers begging for just a shot at a job.
Employers can do no right on this forum...
If employers hire young people with little to no experience, they are practicing ageism.
If employers requires 5 - 10 years of experience, they are being part of the catch-22 (I can't get a job without experience, and I can't get experience without a job)
And now...If employers give a chance to someone who put some effort into learning a skill outside of college, they didn't interview right.
If employers hire young people with little to no experience, they are practicing ageism.
If employers requires 5 - 10 years of experience, they are being part of the catch-22 (I can't get a job without experience, and I can't get experience without a job)
And now...If employers give a chance to someone who put some effort into learning a skill outside of college, they didn't interview right.
That has nothing to do with the source of the problem for the OP. So your solution is for the OP to beat themselves up because they were setup to fail by bad management. The idea they should be a lighting rod for an impossible situation does no one any good. Sorry, but that isn't a constructive direction for the OP, and it isn't the root cause of the problem.
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