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Old 03-22-2019, 07:16 AM
 
2,477 posts, read 706,691 times
Reputation: 3451

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Non union, I am not held back by poor performing co-workers.
If the poor performing worker is your boss, then you will be held back in a non-union job.

Quote:
If I prove I am doing more than them, I can be paid more and promoted faster.
No, you'll be declared overqualified and laid off earlier than the rest.

Quote:
Non union, I'm not stuck with mediocre workers who only don't get fired because of union rules.
Versus being fired because you're doing too good and demanded a raise. That's an improvement! /sarc


Quote:
Each job having a set salary band is good for average to mediocre performers, it's a negative for people who can prove they deserve more.
Each job having a salary band prevents people who do good work from being underpaid because they're not good at negotiating salary.

Quote:
I'm confused why you would think being on the side of motivated employees who take responsibility for their own careers is "on the side of management".
Because generally speaking, management does not want motivated workers who do good work. If you do good work, you'll be demanding a raise and it is time to lay you off to protect their bonus checks.

"motivated workers" get discriminated against and declared "overqualified."

I've seen it happen so often.

You COULD be right on the money on your belief set, if we had a meritocracy in the private sector workforce. We don't.

Read the Gervais Principle to see what is reality.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:17 AM
 
11,175 posts, read 8,570,826 times
Reputation: 28182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post
"I've never heard" & "I don't know anyone" does not mean that these things aren't prevalent for others, just not for you.
True. Howrver, even here on CD where 90%+ of the posts are complaints, I still don't hear many stories of vacations being cancelled at the last minute and workers being required to report to work. Maybe it's a blue collar thing.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:28 AM
 
701 posts, read 257,260 times
Reputation: 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by katalin View Post
The only downsize of working for a Union position is a hard worker getting more to do while the lazy ass people getting away with murder because they are favorites. If it was a non-union job a hard worker would have been fired because of favoritism.
I agree.

In additions:

I saw some lazy *sses got fired because the Union knew what they were, and they (the Union) would not be on their side for two or three times. The Union wanted to help them because they (the Union) did not want them to be unemployed and hoped them to improve. But if they continuously got complaints many times after the first, the Union could not help them anymore.

There are lazy *sses who don't get fired because they know how to be friends with the management, to bribe and flatter them. They are like the fence sitters.

Yes, some hard working employees get to do more work because someone in the management favors some lazy *sses who are his/her pets. And yes, some hard working employees get fired because they dare to speak up when they are bullied by the management, and the one in the management would say that those employees are insubordinate. But if you have Union, the Union are strong and they can help you. They have a lawyer of their own, they can fight for you.

I like to be in the Union. I prefer to pay a little union due every two weeks over going out for lunch, happy hours or special events with some social butterflies all the times. And if you don't join, those social butterflies would say you are antisocial or not a team player and report you to the management. If you don't join, you may get fired because of that too. That's ridiculous. For me, when I have a job, come to work, I just want to do my work well and be nice reasonably and professional with everyone, and after work I go home to my family and my loved ones.

I had my Union helped me once after 25 years of hard work, and then I was bullied by this one in power who just came and wanted to get rid of me because I just cared to do my job and not into mingling with whoever wanted to socialize so much, or flattering the one in power, or maybe that person was insecure, wanted to get rid of all the long time employees who know the company inside out and are good at their job, so that person could be the "best" one in the company. There are somebody like that in the management, very insecure, very emotional, unfair, not logical. You never know. After all, I still have my job. I felt it was worth it to have Union even they just helped me once in my life. But I believe they are still with me always.

I like my job because I like the work I do and most of my co-workers are nice reasonably. The mean ones don't matter to me. I just ignore them. Besides, I know there are many in the management know that I do a good job, just don't care much about socializing, which is good.

Last edited by AnOrdinaryCitizen; 03-22-2019 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:29 AM
 
1,720 posts, read 563,569 times
Reputation: 3658
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
If the poor performing worker is your boss, then you will be held back in a non-union job.

No, you'll be declared overqualified and laid off earlier than the rest.

Versus being fired because you're doing too good and demanded a raise. That's an improvement! /sarc

Each job having a salary band prevents people who do good work from being underpaid because they're not good at negotiating salary.

Because generally speaking, management does not want motivated workers who do good work. If you do good work, you'll be demanding a raise and it is time to lay you off to protect their bonus checks.

"motivated workers" get discriminated against and declared "overqualified."

I've seen it happen so often.

You COULD be right on the money on your belief set, if we had a meritocracy in the private sector workforce. We don't.

Read the Gervais Principle to see what is reality.
If the poor performer is my boss, I will suffer no matter what. I wouldn't stay in a job like that, union or otherwise.

Having salary bands holds me back. I don't want to be paid a set range, regardless of how much value I prove I can add to a company. That encourages mediocrity. Please remember, it's not about "how hard" you work, it's about how much value you can prove you add to a company. Quantify your work and prove you're adding value to a company and you will get raises.

You are deemed "overqualified" if you somehow confuse working harder with getting more money. Focus on value you're adding to an organization. Again, if you want to be in a union, great, more power to you. I personally though, don't see the point in paying union dues for "protection" I can do better on my own. Union-type arrangements hold motivated people back.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:25 AM
 
1,444 posts, read 1,124,375 times
Reputation: 4864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
no, if it were non-union the harder worker could put together a presentation on why they should get a raise and get more money. I've done it every 2-3 years.

Non-union you are in control of your own career. Not paying union dues for "protection" that isn't needed.
Maybe union protection isn't needed where you work but that isn't the case for many employees. Union strong.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:03 AM
 
554 posts, read 1,029,250 times
Reputation: 121
Default re

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
I agree.

In additions:

I saw some lazy *sses got fired because the Union knew what they were, and they (the Union) would not be on their side for two or three times. The Union wanted to help them because they (the Union) did not want them to be unemployed and hoped them to improve. But if they continuously got complaints many times after the first, the Union could not help them anymore.

There are lazy *sses who don't get fired because they know how to be friends with the management, to bribe and flatter them. They are like the fence sitters.

Yes, some hard working employees get to do more work because someone in the management favors some lazy *sses who are his/her pets. And yes, some hard working employees get fired because they dare to speak up when they are bullied by the management, and the one in the management would say that those employees are insubordinate. But if you have Union, the Union are strong and they can help you. They have a lawyer of their own, they can fight for you.

I like to be in the Union. I prefer to pay a little union due every two weeks over going out for lunch, happy hours or special events with some social butterflies all the times. And if you don't join, those social butterflies would say you are antisocial or not a team player and report you to the management. If you don't join, you may get fired because of that too. That's ridiculous. For me, when I have a job, come to work, I just want to do my work well and be nice reasonably and professional with everyone, and after work I go home to my family and my loved ones.

I had my Union helped me once after 25 years of hard work, and then I was bullied by this one in power who just came and wanted to get rid of me because I just cared to do my job and not into mingling with whoever wanted to socialize so much, or flattering the one in power, or maybe that person was insecure, wanted to get rid of all the long time employees who know the company inside out and are good at their job, so that person could be the "best" one in the company. There are somebody like that in the management, very insecure, very emotional, unfair, not logical. You never know. After all, I still have my job. I felt it was worth it to have Union even they just helped me once in my life. But I believe they are still with me always.

I like my job because I like the work I do and most of my co-workers are nice reasonably. The mean ones don't matter to me. I just ignore them. Besides, I know there are many in the management know that I do a good job, just don't care much about socializing, which is good.

Very true, and this is exactly why I like my union job and will be applying only for union position when I move back East.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:10 AM
 
6,855 posts, read 3,884,515 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
True. Howrver, even here on CD where 90%+ of the posts are complaints, I still don't hear many stories of vacations being cancelled at the last minute and workers being required to report to work. Maybe it's a blue collar thing.

Not that it matters, but I'm an RN, not a blue collar thing.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:13 AM
 
3,423 posts, read 879,665 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
Congratulations on seeking a unionized position. By going union, you can be assured that misunderstandings with management won't result in termination, you will have reasonable paid vacation, and you will be paid what the men are because each position will have a salary band.


Here is a website to get you started: Hospitals | CWA 1091 : The New Jersey Nurses Union
Amen Brother!

In unity,

CWA 3611
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:17 AM
 
3,423 posts, read 879,665 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
If the poor performer is my boss, I will suffer no matter what. I wouldn't stay in a job like that, union or otherwise.

Having salary bands holds me back. I don't want to be paid a set range, regardless of how much value I prove I can add to a company. That encourages mediocrity. Please remember, it's not about "how hard" you work, it's about how much value you can prove you add to a company. Quantify your work and prove you're adding value to a company and you will get raises.

You are deemed "overqualified" if you somehow confuse working harder with getting more money. Focus on value you're adding to an organization. Again, if you want to be in a union, great, more power to you. I personally though, don't see the point in paying union dues for "protection" I can do better on my own. Union-type arrangements hold motivated people back.
I understand why you might want to think that, but:

You can only say that so many times until you can't seem to work anywhere long enough to qualify for retirement. Your bosses, as non-union management, WILL cycle out more quickly, resulting in you working for SEVERAL managers even if your title doesn't change. At least ONE will be bad.

The union is the reason you DON'T have to move on because of a boss just looking for the smallest violation to start a paper trail. In any other non-protected setting, you have no recourse. Over a union worker's life, he very well may be fired multiple times, but will get his job back if no egregious misconduct was found. As long as you didn't hit someone, falsify records, or lay out for 40 straight days, you can be brought back on with back pay.

You have to be confrontational, but it WILL let you keep doing the work you love for 30 years. And no bad boss can change that.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
4,842 posts, read 1,997,540 times
Reputation: 5299
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
True. Howrver, even here on CD where 90%+ of the posts are complaints, I still don't hear many stories of vacations being cancelled at the last minute and workers being required to report to work. Maybe it's a blue collar thing.

Why are you relying CD for complaints? Are you that new to the work force that you can't draw on the experience of others and your own?
In some companies ambitious people are identified and taken advantage of. They work unpaid overtime and get called in at the drop of a hat. Then they hire people into the position that you were hoping to be promoted to from another company.

Last edited by Tonyafd; 03-22-2019 at 01:50 PM..
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