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Old 03-26-2019, 06:47 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
This route IS hard and fraught with too much uncertainty. Not saying it's impossible, but you are competing in a volatile, global, and youth-centric profession at a relatively advanced age.

Do the teaching gig.. it's a bed of feathers by comparison and comes with way more job security. And do RE in summer, it may exceed your expectations or not.. but find out.

I worked in IT from the age of 20 starting with IBM after college before there were any degrees in the field, until I retired 39 years later in 2008. I LOVED working as programmer, analyst, and systems designer.
The $$ was great but the stress at the end of three corporate mergers was unreal so I asked to be riffed and it turned out fine.
But, WOW what a ride!

Good luck young man.
So you would have chosen another career in hindsight? If so, which one?
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:49 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,051 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
This route IS hard and fraught with too much uncertainty. Not saying it's impossible, but you are competing in a volatile, global, and youth-centric profession at a relatively advanced age.

Do the teaching gig.. it's a bed of feathers by comparison and comes with way more job security. And do RE in summer, it may exceed your expectations or not.. but find out.

I worked in IT from the age of 20 starting with IBM after college before there were any degrees in the field, until I retired 39 years later in 2008. I LOVED working as programmer, analyst, and systems designer.
The $$ was great but the stress at the end of three corporate mergers was unreal so I asked to be riffed and it turned out fine.
But, WOW what a ride!

Good luck young man.
You might find this amusing: I was on a student doctor forum browsing posts and there were a number of pharmacists who wished they went into programming instead.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:54 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyfan View Post
If you teach somewhere with student loan forgiveness that could net you more in the end. Otherwise you need be disciplined to reduce that debt. 100k is a large amount to pay off.

As a teacher, the key to getting into a better financial situation is not taking summers OFF. Instead get a position working as a summer school teacher, or for a private tutoring firm, or a seasonal summers only tourism type job.
You are probably right. Whether I go into teaching or some other field I will use an "income-based repayment plan." With teaching I have to make 120 payments (10 years) and then the balance is forgiven. If I were to go the IT route or buyer route with income-based repayment any balance would be forgiven after 20 years/240 payments.
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:39 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
When you're as old as I am, 37 years old seems like a youngster. I went back to graduate school at 53 and got a Master's in clinical psychology. Saw clients and did agency administrative work for 6 years and ended up going back to high-tech work, seeing career coaching clients on the side. At this point I'm retired (did so at 70 when my social security was maxed out), though I'm keeping my BCC board certification as a life coach active. My original thought was -- counseling and coaching is something I can do in retirement on a part time basis. The cost and effort involved in getting licensed as a counselor in a new state ended up being more than I wanted to deal with, however, so I'm not pursuing it here in SC. I'm working on a web design practice as well as a coaching practice, and hope in a year or so to supplement my income that way.
My thought about being a teacher is, it is something I will not mind when I am in my late 50's to 60's because I have the summers off. Work as a clinical psychologist has some similarities to being a special ed teacher. That is interesting that you went back into tech.
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:45 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Anything with IT security is desirable. Do not teach!!!!

There have been many who have been scammed by the Federal government's loan forgiveness program. Please google it. You have to jump through multiple hoops to qualify and remain compliant for the full 10 years. They will not make it straightforward AT ALL. There is a whole bunch of red tape!!!

Teachers are treated like crap. IT analysts can also be treated like crap. But in ISA they will be a bit more hesitant to fire you over B.S. and politics.

If I had to start over again I would choose 1) IT Security/Cybersecurity 2) Cloud or Blockchain Tech 3) Horticulturalist/Agricultural scientist specializing in Cannabis 4) IT Project Manager 5) B2B focused SaaS developer

My current capacity is most similar to #4 if I had the talent I'd go into 1 or 2.
My main concern with ISA is that, when I am in my late 50's=70s, I will likely want to have more than 2-3 weeks off for vacation. If I teach, I can work during the summers (doing something else) and then have them off when I get old. I suppose I could do some freelance consulting work when I am 55-72 years old and have time off. Or suppose I could be a freelance work from home programmer--although I am not sure how realistic that is.
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:47 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,051 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
OP as for your choice, if it hasn't been made already. I'd say consider that teaching gig...AND how much that loan forgiveness is worth.

Special ed teachers are in demand. IF you're male, there really aren't that many male Special Ed teachers (compared to female)

Loan forgiveness worth?? I guess the easy calculation would be figure out how much of your loan you'd pay back in 10 years, and whatever the rest of the loan is (principle and interest) -- that's what the loan forgiveness is worth in dollars that don't have to come out of YOUR pocket.

Now, figure how much you'd have to make after taxes to pay off the rest of that loan. Do you want that kind of loan payment for another 10 years. How might that affect you being able to save for buying a house (if you want to) -- or saving for your own retirement, or just having that money in your pocket to do with as you will.

I know a few people who've retired from teaching. THEY were burned out after doing it for 30 years, AND were frustrated by changes in the education system, especially in the major city where they taught.

But you've only been subbing, and don't seem bothered by the thought of a teaching career. (Granted there's a big difference in the exposure to issues and people that would bring on frustration that you'd encounter as a sub vs. full-time.) And teachers' summers off are getting shorter, the longer districts stretch-out the school year. But it's still two months off.

So, I totally second the post that said teaching isn't "difficult" it's frustrating. Kids don't pass: blame the teacher. Kids are disruptive: teacher can't control the classroom. Kid fails test: parent is in your face. But also in special ed you'll likely be a little protected from some of that. AND, special ed may give you a satisfaction that teaching "normal" kids who just want to be hoodlums couldn't provide.

-- Teach in a big, major city, urban district: headaches out the wazoo. (the better salary, although some districts are paying squat. Philly teachers start off now with horrible pay.)
-- Teach in a small suburban district: not quite the same frustrations. Frustrations for different reasons from above. Less pay.
-- Teach in a private school: Could be better behaved -- but also privileged kids, and snooty parents who think they know best. But again, being a SE teacher you could be out of some of that fray. Private school would pay less. Plus also be careful of their pension eligibility, some don't pay into pensions.

If you teach, I'd say chase the best pay and retirement benefits, with the better learning environment. There IS something rewarding about seeing a kid achieve. Seeing the "light bulb" moment where THEY know they get it.

---

As for your age, 37 is NOT old. You've got a lot of living and can still start and have several careers after 37.
I might look at teaching just to get the loan forgiveness. (Ten years is long, but isn't THAT long.) You'll also qualify for a small pension. If you keep up with your other interests, you don't know what doors could open or opportunities there might be later on. A person is NOT "washed up" at 47. I'd also keep trying for a federal gig. Try to time getting one of those for after your loans are forgiven.



The OP didn't say they didn't. S/he just said s/he was told s/he was beaten out by a vet (and given that vets get points that's very likely) -- and a minority. That's all that was said. Are you saying vets don't beat out other equality qualified candidates just because of their points? As for the minority part, are you saying diversity isn't a factor in selection?

The OP is just saying what he was told by a recruiter. Which I believe happens. In ALL cases? No. But it happens.

You bring up a lot good points. Thanks.
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:52 AM
 
117 posts, read 39,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
I owe more than that and make enough annually to pay mine off in 5-7 years. Unless a pension is in the works, I would strongly recommend not taking a low paying government job for the point of loan forgiveness. 10 years suffering a thankless job and then you're age 40 and unable to pivot due to age discrimination. The best bet is to bust a** at a career at the youngest age possible and once you start hitting 100k+ then rapidly pay down the loan. So instead of slaving away at a thankless job for 10 years and getting pigeonholed into Education you can go into Education with actual work experience later, potentially get a higher salary as a consultant or PT teacher and be semi-retired at age 55 with that income and all the money you saved at the high paying job after paying down the loan quickly.

Let's say you got loan forgiveness after 10 years best case scenario. You started teaching at 30 and your 25 years is at 55. Well your pension is going to remain the same for life despite the COL. That works if you start young and retire at age 40 and do a second career aside from teaching. It doesn't work living in the USA if you retire from teaching at age 55 and don't have the health or energy or youth to get hired in a second career or launch a business.

When you do the cost comparison analysis for other jobs with a pension (NOT teaching) the outlook looks better. I regularly advise young people to work for the Fed/State/City when possible for any position that offers pension (called Tier 6 for NYC) not as good as it used to be but better than nothing. Start at age 21 (or 18 even better) do 25 clock out at age 45 at 50k minimum USD pension per year before taxes, use your deferred comp investment to buy property in low COL area with moderate job opportunities start a career consulting in a related field or just start fresh. You don't have to worry about rent, food or medicine because that's all covered by your city retirement healthcare + pension + deferred comp savings. For teachers it's a pittance in comparison. Unless you wheeled and dealed and got into administration.

Older people (60+) on this forum always say "You have time"...Let's take a poll on how many of those people who say that are already retired on a boat Because for every one of those posts I see another saying how "50 and underemployed" / "50 and can't change careers"
In my situation, if I go the ISA route it would take a long time before I hit $100k, and if I was a procurement manager it would be unlikely as well. Reaching director level/VP level seems like a long shot.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:05 AM
 
3,603 posts, read 1,556,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justsomeone9 View Post
**Please no virtue-signalling, sarcasm, or finger-pointing**

Can you help me make a wise career decision based on the following factors? Which pathway would make more sense, financially?

37 year old. Been substitute teaching for past 3 years. Prior to substitute teaching I was a buyer for about 4 years making about $50,000 a year. I have an MBA and about $100,000 in student loan debt. I am looking for advice between two options.

High school teacher. $28/hour to start (based on days worked over a school year). $37/hour career midpoint. Late career hourly rate is also $37/hr.
Pros: pension, summers off, teacher student loan forgiveness after 10 years on an income-based repayment plan, then loans are forgiven. Cons include low pay. I might need to get a master's in education at some point if I want to increase salary.

Information security analyst. I would have to get certs and start from the ground up in a lower-level IT position; certs are fairly cheap though. $28 to start. $49/hr mid-career. $60/hr late-career rate. Pros: higher pay. Cons: on an income-based repayment plan loans would not be forgiven until 20 years have passed (if I do not have student loans paid off earlier). Possible age discrimination.
First get rid of the $/hr , loan forgiveness mindset. Which university gave your MBA??

IS analyst is also not guaranteed because you have no IT experience.

If you already have experience in teaching, become a tutor and start your own teaching business in weekends.
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,634 posts, read 3,697,792 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justsomeone9 View Post
My thought about being a teacher is, it is something I will not mind when I am in my late 50's to 60's because I have the summers off. Work as a clinical psychologist has some similarities to being a special ed teacher. That is interesting that you went back into tech.
Regarding advice - your situation in a nutshell is:

* 3 yrs as substitute teacher (current employment)
* 4 years as a buyer
* Possess an MBA
* Owe $100,000 in student loans (this should be a key consideration)
* Considering careers as high school teacher, or information security analyst

If you go into high school teaching and get an MEd, you'd be eligible for loan forgiveness on what you borrow for the MEd -- but not as far as I know for the $100K you owe now for your MBA. That will remain a huge albatross hanging around your neck.

If on the other hand you decide to go into an information security analyst career - you've got a huge learning curve ahead of you, and an expensive one. As others have pointed out, having certifications won't get you a job - and you'll be competing against a lot of people with experience.

Frankly, neither sounds like a great option to me. What I'd be focusing on if I were you is that $100K albatross, and coming up with a long-term plan for paying it off. I'd be looking at careers that require at most a couple of years' education and pay well - I'd start at your local community colleges and see what two year certificate programs they offer. The community college in area I moved from offered a lot of different programs. For example: they have a two-year MRI Technologist program -- median 2017 income per O*Net $69,930 per year; a two year Radiation Therapist program -- median 2017 income per O*Net $80,570 per year. Both show projected job growth as faster than average. The only caveat is -- these tend to be highly competitive programs (for obvious reasons) so it may be a struggle getting into a program.

The community college I'm talking about provides the following two-year certificate programs. Some pay more than others, and some have brighter job prospects than others - and some are more likely to land you a job than others. Again, I recommend taking the SDS online for ten bucks to see what suggestions it provides, and using O*Net to do further research.

Automotive Service Technology
Certified Nursing Assistant
Cancer Registry Management
Central Processing Distribution
Computed Tomography
Computer Information Systems
Computer and Information Technology
Construction Management
Cosmetology
Criminal Justice
Culinary Arts
Diagnostic Medical Imaging:
-- Computed Tomography
-- Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) Technology
-- Mammography
-- Nuclear Medicine
-- Radiation Therapy
-- Sonography
Early Childhood Education and Care
Earth Science
Education
Electronics Technology
Electro-Mechanical Technology
English
Eye Care Assistant
Facility Management
Fashion Studies
Fire Science
Geography
Graphic Design
Health Information Technology
Health Sciences
-- Clinical Lab Science
-- Non-Invasive EKG
- Phlebotomy
Hearing Instrument Dispensary Program
Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning & Refrigeration
Horticulture
Hospitality & Tourism
Human Services
Interior Design
Library and Information Technology
Long-Term Care Administration
Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) Technology
Mammography
Management
Manufacturing Technology
Marketing
Medical Assistant
Motion Picture/Television
Music
Nuclear Medicine
Nursing
Office Technology Information
Operating Room Patient Care Technician
Photography
Physical Education
Paralegal Studies
Polysomnography
Proton Therapy
Radiation Therapy
Respiratory Care
Sociology
Sonography
Surgical Assistant
Surgical Technology
Travel, Tourism and Event Planning (See Hospitality & Tourism)
Welding
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Old 03-26-2019, 02:05 PM
 
6,034 posts, read 13,128,384 times
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My previous employer was a nonprofit that didn't have anything to do with education. Many people I worked with were using the loan forgiveness program. You sign up with the program, make ten years worth of payments, and if you pay on-time and don't have a forbearance or anything like that, the loans are forgiven. Our IT guy was also doing this. Maybe you could find an IT position with a nonprofit that would provide you with the ten-year loan forgiveness program as well as gaining more experience/skills/learning in security/IT/networking?
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