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Old 03-27-2019, 09:26 PM
 
690 posts, read 252,072 times
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Don't you want to keep advancing your career in spite of a bad manager (or management team)?

Wanting to stop working hard because management is bad is a purely emotional decision. People who do that are harming their future careers just to get that little ego boost from 'sticking it to management'. Those people stop building skills, stop improving, and all but guarantee they will be stuck in jobs they don't like.

Whether management is good or bad has nothing to do with the idea of working harder to build a skillset and make yourself more attractive to the next employer.

Volunteer for extra during that time, try to do more. That's how you get promoted


All the fancy words to trick people into doing more and more and more. No matter how much more is never enough. BS.

Management is good or bad has everything to do with encouraging or discouraging employees to work harder or withdraw back. More or less management to employees are like parents to children because at work they lead and manage their employees like at home parents teach and guide their children. The difference it management can fire employees much easier than parents can kick their children out when they don't like them for some reason. Parents have big influences on their children. So do leaders/managers have big influences on the employees. Good parents have more chance to have good children. Bad parents have more chance to have bad children. In everything, there's no 100% though.

People can advance to certain levels and may want to stop. The higher position you have, the more money you want, the more responsibilities you have to take, and you may have to sacrifice all your times and energy for the company, and don’t even have time for your family and children. Your spouse, partner may feel lonely, your children may feel abandoned and may become bad. You may feel burned out, broken down, become seriously sick and may be depressed.

Everyone has a limit.

There are people who just care to have a job and work hard when they are at work, and after working hours, they want to go home with their family and loved ones. There’s nothing wrong with that. They just want to give an honest working day for an honest payday. They are happy to have a simple and relaxing life. There’s nothing wrong with that. Why is it so hard for somebody to understand that?

Why does somebody always have to tell somebody else to work harder than they are supposed to, to work overtime, to volunteer to keep advancing in his or her career or to get promotions? Who knows somebody may have gotten enough of promotions and money, but s/he just wants to stay at a certain level, and s/he still work hard enough, not slacking, not lazy, but hard enough honestly. What’s wrong with that? Don’t the employers and the management feel happy to see honest and hard working employees who don’t really care to climb the corporate ladder?

Also, mostly, no matter how ambitious one is, how high one can climb up the corporate ladder, one day that person will not be able to climb up any higher, not to mention that person might have a life upside down. It happened to quite a few.

And whoever, even in the management, always says the fancy words so far, just wait until s/he be treated badly, unfairly by the higher-up, when s/he always tries to do her best and rarely gets appreciation, bonus, but more work to do, that person will know how it feels like. And that person always thinks she can go to find job somewhere else easily, just wait and see.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle
6,954 posts, read 9,052,966 times
Reputation: 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Don't you want to keep advancing your career in spite of a bad manager (or management team)?

Wanting to stop working hard because management is bad is a purely emotional decision. People who do that are harming their future careers just to get that little ego boost from 'sticking it to management'. Those people stop building skills, stop improving, and all but guarantee they will be stuck in jobs they don't like.

Whether management is good or bad has nothing to do with the idea of working harder to build a skillset and make yourself more attractive to the next employer.

Volunteer for extra during that time, try to do more. That's how you get promoted


All the fancy words to trick people into doing more and more and more. No matter how much more is never enough. BS.

Management is good or bad has everything to do with encouraging or discouraging employees to work harder or withdraw back. More or less management to employees are like parents to children because at work they lead and manage their employees like at home parents teach and guide their children. The difference it management can fire employees much easier than parents can kick their children out when they don't like them for some reason. Parents have big influences on their children. So do leaders/managers have big influences on the employees. Good parents have more chance to have good children. Bad parents have more chance to have bad children. In everything, there's no 100% though.

People can advance to certain levels and may want to stop. The higher position you have, the more money you want, the more responsibilities you have to take, and you may have to sacrifice all your times and energy for the company, and donít even have time for your family and children. Your spouse, partner may feel lonely, your children may feel abandoned and may become bad. You may feel burned out, broken down, become seriously sick and may be depressed.

Everyone has a limit.

There are people who just care to have a job and work hard when they are at work, and after working hours, they want to go home with their family and loved ones. Thereís nothing wrong with that. They just want to give an honest working day for an honest payday. They are happy to have a simple and relaxing life. Thereís nothing wrong with that. Why is it so hard for somebody to understand that?

Why does somebody always have to tell somebody else to work harder than they are supposed to, to work overtime, to volunteer to keep advancing in his or her career or to get promotions? Who knows somebody may have gotten enough of promotions and money, but s/he just wants to stay at a certain level, and s/he still work hard enough, not slacking, not lazy, but hard enough honestly. Whatís wrong with that? Donít the employers and the management feel happy to see honest and hard working employees who donít really care to climb the corporate ladder?

Also, mostly, no matter how ambitious one is, how high one can climb up the corporate ladder, one day that person will not be able to climb up any higher, not to mention that person might have a life upside down. It happened to quite a few.

And whoever, even in the management, always says the fancy words so far, just wait until s/he be treated badly, unfairly by the higher-up, when s/he always tries to do her best and rarely gets appreciation, bonus, but more work to do, that person will know how it feels like. And that person always thinks she can go to find job somewhere else easily, just wait and see.
Brilliant post. Couldn't agree more.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:42 PM
 
3,771 posts, read 5,474,929 times
Reputation: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Don't you want to keep advancing your career in spite of a bad manager (or management team)?

Wanting to stop working hard because management is bad is a purely emotional decision. People who do that are harming their future careers just to get that little ego boost from 'sticking it to management'. Those people stop building skills, stop improving, and all but guarantee they will be stuck in jobs they don't like.

Whether management is good or bad has nothing to do with the idea of working harder to build a skillset and make yourself more attractive to the next employer.

Volunteer for extra during that time, try to do more. That's how you get promoted


.

You don't have to limit yourself to gaining new skills on the job. Particularly if have too many issues with your employer, I would look elsewhere for new skills. For example, get a professional license in your industry or related industry or take a couple classes to learn skills you are missing, especially if they would help you get another job.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:00 PM
 
1,693 posts, read 554,655 times
Reputation: 3577
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Don't you want to keep advancing your career in spite of a bad manager (or management team)?

Wanting to stop working hard because management is bad is a purely emotional decision. People who do that are harming their future careers just to get that little ego boost from 'sticking it to management'. Those people stop building skills, stop improving, and all but guarantee they will be stuck in jobs they don't like.

Whether management is good or bad has nothing to do with the idea of working harder to build a skillset and make yourself more attractive to the next employer.

Volunteer for extra during that time, try to do more. That's how you get promoted


All the fancy words to trick people into doing more and more and more. No matter how much more is never enough. BS.

Management is good or bad has everything to do with encouraging or discouraging employees to work harder or withdraw back. More or less management to employees are like parents to children because at work they lead and manage their employees like at home parents teach and guide their children. The difference it management can fire employees much easier than parents can kick their children out when they don't like them for some reason. Parents have big influences on their children. So do leaders/managers have big influences on the employees. Good parents have more chance to have good children. Bad parents have more chance to have bad children. In everything, there's no 100% though.

People can advance to certain levels and may want to stop. The higher position you have, the more money you want, the more responsibilities you have to take, and you may have to sacrifice all your times and energy for the company, and don’t even have time for your family and children. Your spouse, partner may feel lonely, your children may feel abandoned and may become bad. You may feel burned out, broken down, become seriously sick and may be depressed.

Everyone has a limit.

There are people who just care to have a job and work hard when they are at work, and after working hours, they want to go home with their family and loved ones. There’s nothing wrong with that. They just want to give an honest working day for an honest payday. They are happy to have a simple and relaxing life. There’s nothing wrong with that. Why is it so hard for somebody to understand that?

Why does somebody always have to tell somebody else to work harder than they are supposed to, to work overtime, to volunteer to keep advancing in his or her career or to get promotions? Who knows somebody may have gotten enough of promotions and money, but s/he just wants to stay at a certain level, and s/he still work hard enough, not slacking, not lazy, but hard enough honestly. What’s wrong with that? Don’t the employers and the management feel happy to see honest and hard working employees who don’t really care to climb the corporate ladder?

Also, mostly, no matter how ambitious one is, how high one can climb up the corporate ladder, one day that person will not be able to climb up any higher, not to mention that person might have a life upside down. It happened to quite a few.

And whoever, even in the management, always says the fancy words so far, just wait until s/he be treated badly, unfairly by the higher-up, when s/he always tries to do her best and rarely gets appreciation, bonus, but more work to do, that person will know how it feels like. And that person always thinks she can go to find job somewhere else easily, just wait and see.
Fair enough. You are more than welcome to take that view. You do give up your right to complain if you are laid off, or not given a raise, or pushed into worse and worse roles over time. That's been my point.

Obviously not everyone wants to work hard. The funny thing is a lot of those people who claim they don't want to work hard still come to forums like this to complain on a daily basis. You don't get to have it both ways.

Read carefully (actually read what I write, don't just immediately try to argue). I am saying coasting keeps you from building skills, and can harm your career. Some people are OK with that, and that's fine.

Management being good or bad has nothing to do with this. If I were to intentionally harm my career because I dislike a manager and don't want to put in effort for him/her, that's just me being childish. I've been laid off. Another time everyone in my division got paycuts to "keep us solvent" in spite of bonuses to execs going up. I've been thrown under the bus by terrible managers. I get it. I am saying it is harmful to a person's future if they let emotion get the better of them and stop working as hard because of those things.

As I said in my first post on this thread, I know a lot of people will disagree with me. In my experience, some people want the easy job where they can coast, but they want the respect and rewards that come from working harder. A person can't have it both ways.

Last edited by Lekrii; 03-27-2019 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:16 PM
 
690 posts, read 252,072 times
Reputation: 1816
Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixTheCat View Post
You don't have to limit yourself to gaining new skills on the job. Particularly if have too many issues with your employer, I would look elsewhere for new skills. For example, get a professional license in your industry or related industry or take a couple classes to learn skills you are missing, especially if they would help you get another job.
I don't want to get another job. I like my job. The pay and benefits are reasonably good. I have many weeks for vacation. It's crazily busy most of the times, but never boring. I still want to be honest, work hard and help others sometimes. I do like most of my co-workers and many people in the management. And I know most of them like me too. For those who are like bullies and *ss kissers, I just ignore them.

I just wanted to share my hard lesson in the past (I learn from my mistake - helping others too much), vent a little bit, and discuss/analyze the reasons Why in the topic of the OP with everyone in this forum.

I'm good.

Last edited by AnOrdinaryCitizen; 03-27-2019 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:20 PM
 
780 posts, read 204,145 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
No, not at all. There are agreed upon hours for salaried jobs. Most salaried workers do not regularly work more than 40 hours/week. If you get your work done in six hours, you find something more to do for the other two.

You won't find many salaried jobs at any level that don't have written assumptions on how many hours to work.
Well, Iíve been working for nearly two decades, and this has never been the case for any job Iíve worked. I donít get paid for hours worked. I donít clock in and I donít clock out. Sometimes I have 12 hours of work to do, and sometimes I have less. Nobody has ever noted my hours worked, nor has this ever impeded my upward mobility, and I make pretty good money in my early 30s. So your theory has not been applicable in terms of my career progress.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:45 PM
 
1,693 posts, read 554,655 times
Reputation: 3577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
Well, I’ve been working for nearly two decades, and this has never been the case for any job I’ve worked. I don’t get paid for hours worked. I don’t clock in and I don’t clock out. Sometimes I have 12 hours of work to do, and sometimes I have less. Nobody has ever noted my hours worked, nor has this ever impeded my upward mobility, and I make pretty good money in my early 30s. So your theory has not been applicable in terms of my career progress.
I know what you're saying, and I know the point you're attempting to make. You are salaried, not commissioned. You have an expectation to work a general number of hours as salaried, even if they are never tracked on paper. You and I both know that's true.

Would you be willing to tell your boss you are only working 5-10 hours per week from now on? If not, then you are being paid for a certain number of hours.

Last edited by Lekrii; 03-27-2019 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:57 PM
 
780 posts, read 204,145 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
No one watches your hours on a daily basis when salaried, but when you were hired there was an expectation on how many hours you work.

If you only showed up 10 hours per week, you would not get away with it. I know what you're saying, and I know the point you're attempting to make. You are salaried, not commissioned. You have an expectation to work a general number of hours as salaried, even if they are never tracked on paper. You and I both know that's true.
10 hours a week? No.

I’m in the office anywhere between 35-50 hours a week, depending on the time of month/year/etc. Sometimes there are slow periods and it has been totally acceptable with management to cut out early. In fact, they’ve encouraged it, because they believe in work/life balance. It balances out over the course of the year with the ebbs and flows of business volume. There are days/weeks that, while I’ll be in the office and available to my team, I don’t have a whole lot of busy work. So I spend time doing research or working on pet projects or browsing the web or jumping on meetings that I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to attend. This has been totally acceptable as well. The times that I travel for work, there are plenty of hours spent preparing for that trip and not necessarily working on traditional work stuff.

Not every day or week is crammed with tons of things to do, while other days and weeks are. It all balances out, and that’s why there are salaried roles.
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:47 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,492 posts, read 2,882,289 times
Reputation: 4008
The term "coasting" is so subjective, per person, per industry, per work culture.


For example, I'm told some Chinese cultures, if you need to show up before the boss does, and can only leave after he does. Otherwise, you're "lazy"/"coasting". If this is an office job, no thought nor consideration is given to how well you actually did.
Others will think that not working weekends is coasting
There has been management who don't know how to manage expectations, how to communicate instructions, and so the employees were doomed to begin with.


OTOH, there are those who don't ever really get anything done and think that's OK



Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
People that are coasting, are often increasing the number of people needed to get the work done. Some companies have gone as far as firing the 1 or 2 people at the bottom of the work production each month
Don't forget the other side of the coin... employers that should've hired 1 to 2 more people, but insist that burning out their current staff with 60 to 90 hour weeks is "normal", and anything less than that is "coasting".


Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianRo View Post
Some companies value the hard work and willingness to go above and beyond. Most donít.

I think itís becoming more and more evident that finding a quality employer today that actually values you and is managed properly, is the equivalent of winning the lottery. Donít expect to find one. In the event you do, yes go the extra mile for them. The rest of the dumps? , why bother? If your arenít valued your wasting your time busting your rear trying to ďlevel upĒ. Chances are you will just be laid off in the end anyways due to crappy management decisions or the corrupt management dumping the unconnected workers to bring their buddies/relatives later

Do your 8 hours and leave. Donít get too emotionally attached to these employers As stated, most arenít even worth a hoot anyways
For one company, I used to work 9 hours a day, Mon. to Friday. One day, I left after 8h 45m. Then 8.5 hours. Then 8.25 hours, and eventually 8 hours. I realized that there's always going to be something to do. Why stay late and get it done when you're already putting in a full day's work? I used that extra hour each day to sleep, spend time with friends, work out, play video games.. they actually got MORE out of me since I was more refreshed for work each day!
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:27 PM
 
3,771 posts, read 5,474,929 times
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I have to admit it, I'm a hard worker. I don't know how many pencil leads I broke, furiously writing away reports, graphs, studies and so on. And when I'm done with my reports in just 5 hours, it's off to the file room. I spend the next 3 hours sorting through files, getting them in chronological and alphabetical order. When that's done, I head to the company VPs office and spend a good 2-3 hours, brain storming ideas, for no extra charge.
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