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Old 03-30-2019, 04:26 AM
 
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PHP is declining though, no? I think Python is growing (might not be for the same purpose thought).
JS seems the logical step after HTML/CSS which I get (19 years of experience with them).
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthy_ View Post
PHP is declining though, no? I think Python is growing (might not be for the same purpose thought).
JS seems the logical step after HTML/CSS which I get (19 years of experience with them).
PHP is still used on 79% of the world's websites, whereas Python is used on 1.1% of websites - here are details on the market positions:

https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/all/all

Node.js is another technology that's hot right now (about 0.7% of websites): here's a node.js vs PHP comparison:

https://stackify.com/node-js-vs-php/

It's impossible to say what the landscape will look like ten years from now, but at the moment -- it looks like PHP still king from the perspective of the web development job seeker.
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Old 03-30-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: League City
3,382 posts, read 6,610,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthy_ View Post
PHP is declining though, no? I think Python is growing (might not be for the same purpose thought).
JS seems the logical step after HTML/CSS which I get (19 years of experience with them).
PHP is still huge, but generally not recommended. I've heard that it is great if you get heavily involved in WordPress, however.

Python CAN be used for web development, but it is far more popular in other arenas. That is probably the top language for data analytics and data science. I think it's even big for machine learning. You know about the recommender systems that Netflix and Amazon and Walmart use to guide your purchases? Or self driving cars? Also I'm pretty sure Python is also big in biological data processing. Python is huge, but not in web development.

Javascript is probably the biggest for web development. Once you learn the basics then all hell breaks loose as you then need to learn about ever changing libraries and frameworks. That becomes a moving target. You will be in for a LOT of reading if you want to stay current. That's why I am trying to stay with the ASP.NET world with my job. It changes a lot, too, but Microsoft is better at reigning in their own stuff and compared to the wild west of javascript, you have to do a lot less to keep up.

This is not an exaggeration:
https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-...6-d3a717dd577f

Last edited by DanielWayne; 03-30-2019 at 11:50 AM..
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Old 03-30-2019, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,671 posts, read 3,720,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielWayne View Post
PHP is still huge, but generally not recommended. I've heard that it is great if you get heavily involved in WordPress, however.
The Big Three CMS systems: WordPress, Joomla!, and Drupal are all PHP based. You need good PHP skills to be a developer (writing themes, plugins, etc) for any one of them. Same for other specialized CMS and knowledgebase systems like Moodle and MediaWiki. Last I checked, around 25% of websites are written with WordPress - that's worldwide. And it includes some very prominent companies:

https://winningwp.com/examples-of-bi...ing-wordpress/

Quote:
Javascript is probably the biggest for web development. Once you learn the basics then all hell breaks loose as you then need to learn about ever changing libraries and frameworks. That becomes a moving target. You will be in for a LOT of reading if you want to stay current. That's why I am trying to stay with the ASP.NET world with my job. It changes a lot, too, but Microsoft is better at reigning in their own stuff and compared to the wild west of javascript, you have to do a lot less to keep up.
Which the OP runs into depends on where he (or she) ends up - at my last job, it was 90% Windows servers; at some of my previous jobs, it was all Unix or Linux. As the following article points out, the JS landscape changes on a daily basis. It provides a list of the most popular JS frameworks and libraries as of the end of 2018. The top three are jQuery, React, and Angular; Lynda.com has training on all three.

https://www.sitepoint.com/top-javasc...ies-tools-use/

One way to look at it is, there are two basic kinds of people in the tech world: those who want to be on the cutting edge, thrive on change, and are early adopters of whatever newest and greatest; and those who like what's solid and reliable, and prefer knowing what they're doing tomorrow. I fall closer to the cutting edge than the solid and reliable side - but I'm not an early adopter. Neither's good or bad, and the OP needs to decide where he wants to be on the spectrum. It's a matter of preference, mostly.
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Old 03-30-2019, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
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The tools and platforms are secondary issues. Mastery of HTML and CSS are essential; very little on the web does not devolve to HTML/CSS code no matter how complex and sophisticated the meta-languages and dynamic processors that generate those pages. No amount of skill with those higher-level tools substitutes for complete mastery of the base page code as interpreted by browsers. Both PHP and Javascript are likewise essential and need mastery at their own level before superset tools and meta-languages can be effectively used.

But at the end of the day, or job, or project or deliverables, nothing really matters but effective transfer of the information being presented. It all boils down to competent or expert writing, graphic design, page layout, usability and user responsiveness. If those components aren't addressed, first and foremost, all the genius wizardry with Python or Ruby or WordPress or SQL barely mean squat. The most technically perfect book in the world is worthless if it contains gibberish and lacks page numbers and an index. It's no different for e/web content.

Anyone who thinks they can get the big bux in this field by mastering languages and tools is either deluded or very much "part of the problem."
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Old 03-30-2019, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,671 posts, read 3,720,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthy_ View Post
I am great at breaking computers by stumbling into bugs and circumventing system protections of any kind. Want to test your new software, let me discover its bugs, I sure will. I am like the pied piper of software/web bugs.

The Web Dev market here in Bulgaria is huge. Too few people, too many jobs.... and an IT guy sure lives better here than in Western Europe due to the big salaries and the low standard and taxes.
If you're good at breaking software and enjoy that kind of work, you might consider going into software quality assurance (reducing the likelihood of defects) and/or software testing (finding defects in existing software).

In today's agile environments, testers are usually embedded in development teams. QA personnel typically work at an administrative level to make sure processes and procedures are in place to reduce errors and find them after they're introduced, running compliance audits, and so on - they're process oriented, in other words.

You can read about all aspects of software QA and testing here:

Welcome to Software Testing Fundamentals (STF) ! - Software Testing Fundamentals
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:18 PM
 
407 posts, read 151,419 times
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Thanks for the links. I'm done brushing up on HTML. Now at CSS3 which will take a couple more days as it's been 7 years already since I last used it lol.

I will ask probably the most stupid question ever but how are websites written today? I don't think with strict client/company deadlines you have the time to start writing from scratch everything? As a subset question, do you also use WYSIWYG editors/previewers along with plain HTML view?

That's how I did it in the stone age days of 2000-2003. Start up a new project in FrontPage. Use NotePad, FrontPage Express or in later versions, FrontPage's own HTML view more to edit the source code and remove most of the useless junk. That's still how I remove any Wayback Machine stuff from archived old sites I save for nostalgic purposes on my hard drive. I would also design banners and other web graphics such as buttons on PS (now images as buttons seem rarely used). I did some quite good-looking sites that were more stylish than most in that era (better use of color and I've never use HTML frames). I don't remember, but I think I'd export the inline CSS in a new file or sth.

Can you tell me how it's done today by serious web devs? What tools they use (Eclipse?). I really need geeky ppl in my life right now (most of my friends are not techies as I haven't met many, thinking of joining a camp). I don't want to go back to that archaic way of doing things.
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:21 PM
 
3,778 posts, read 2,136,940 times
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Why bother? Chances are your job will be outsourced to China/India etc. along with the rest of the Engineering/Computer disciplines etc.

The future of America (like the present currently is in the more "superficial disciplines" (business, Finance, Accounting etc) to where you can tinker with numbers Or some garden variety corporate management "filler' position . Not doing anything of real value. Stay Put

I wouldn't do anything engineering related, computer related.

If the Job does stay "domestic" then it will just be on a contract, no bennies, pertempScam basis. Any career in engineering/computers are GONE!!! Never to return
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:28 PM
 
407 posts, read 151,419 times
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^Lol, if you read my posts, you'd know I'm not American. My own country and also some other European countries are booming places for IT outsourcing and I don't mean just the boring/terrible stuff like accounting reviews or call centers. I've worked for ACCN btw and I preferred having lunch with the techies rather than with my co-workers from the operations clerical office. I hated not having any input in the actual process but just doing boring administrative tasks.
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:30 PM
 
3,778 posts, read 2,136,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthy_ View Post
^Lol, if you read my posts, you'd know I'm not American. My own country and also some other European countries are booming places for IT outsourcing and I don't mean just the boring/terrible stuff like accounting reviews or call centers. I've worked for ACCN btw and I preferred having lunch with the techies rather than with my co-workers from the operations clerical office.


I didn't read the entire post but STILL not safe. That job can be done for pennies on the dollar in other countries. Stay put in the business side of things.
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