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Old 03-31-2019, 07:51 AM
 
Location: In a vehicle.
5,064 posts, read 3,237,132 times
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Resign and say nothing, if they haven't figured it out yet, that's their problem NOT YOURS....
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:30 AM
 
15,150 posts, read 19,804,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
...Do you reckon I should advise HR of her ways in a diplomatic manner? Or should I address those with her?

Neither. I know that's not what you want to hear, as you seem determined to believe that your input will be valued. Trust me, it wont. Despite what you want to think about yourself, in the eyes of your employer, you're just another replaceable peon.

I was a manager and saw many people in other departments quit and tell HR about their dysfunctional managers -- and guess what happened? Nothing. Management always sticks together. A manager would have to do something criminally wrong for HR to take any action. If the behavior is not criminally wrong, then it doesn't matter how many people complain about misbehavior. No one cares.

And addressing the problems with your boss once you've given notice may make you feel better, but it wont result in any changes. Of course, addressing the problems with your boss before you give notice will result in your having to change companies ASAP.
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Old 03-31-2019, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Empire State of Philly
1,746 posts, read 1,285,517 times
Reputation: 2986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
First of all any attacks on your current boss will be frowned upon. Remember that she was promoted, you weren't. Attacks on her are attacks on their decision. There may be a conversation in years to come where the other guy will say "I know that company, who did you work for there?". If you trashed her, you will have reason to be concerned.

Your primary task now is to secure the references that you've worked so hard to get, and keep a paper copy of any "kuddos" that were given to you over the past three years. I would do that soon because your email permissions could be revoked at any time. In your exit interview, I would focus on what your rehire code will be.

You mentioned high turnover. I think that personnel already knows what kind of atmosphere you work in. It sounds like you gave a copy of your resignation to HR. If I'm wrong then do it after you've made copies of important emails.


In the future, you should try to stay at any job for at least five years for a pension. You may not think that it's important now but you will when you are sixty.
My email permissions won't be revoked until my last day at midnight. We work with emails and I have direct client contact, so I'm sure my emails will be accessible still until I'm effectively gone. I will however save all the positive feedback.

I can get my references from other people above her who work in a different office, so realistically, I need zero reference from people in my office.

As far as rehire is concerned, there's no way I'm ever coming back to this office, so I won't even bother. Once you leave toxicity, you have to be a fool to want to come back. Come back to what? A salary way below average with uneducated managers?

She got promoted and I didn't? Of course, she got promoted when I had just started there. There was no competition between the two of us, so this argument is completely irrelevant in this specific scenario.

I don't work in the US & the pension system is different over here. It depends on the company you work for. The pension contribution only starts at 30 in my current company. Thus, I'm not going to remain in a toxic place for 5 years just to get pension. 5 years is a long time and when you are in your mid-twenties, you need to progress in your career. Remaining at the same spot in a toxic place for 5 years is not a strategy.

Last edited by LostinPhilly; 03-31-2019 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 03-31-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Empire State of Philly
1,746 posts, read 1,285,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
Now that I see your additional posts, I think that they are positioning themselves for a recession.
Yeah, perhaps.

It's true that no other colleague that resigned got a count-offer either. It seems as though they're happy to see people go to argue that they're cost-cutting.
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Old 03-31-2019, 10:31 AM
 
704 posts, read 258,719 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Basically, I spoke about the situation to a couple of people.

The managers that are supportive of me and way above her, advised that I schedule a meeting with her & her own manager to tell them my truth.

My friends advised that I discuss with HR in a black & white manner, leaving the emotional piece aside and putting the facts on the table.

Now, I am sorry, but she calls herself a "feminist" yet needs to dim other women's shine to feel good about herself. This is not being a feminist, this is being petty.

In all fairness, when I gave my resignation, I did thank her for her for everything she's done and yadi yada, but 5 minutes later her passive-aggressiveness came through again. I mean, I know she doesn't like me yet even on my way out, she's still trying to bring me down. This is pure pettiness. There was no "I'm sad to see you're leaving ..." nothing. It was straight to the comments I indicated in my OP above.

Normally, when your employee resigns, you play it politically correct regardless of whether you liked them or not. You thank them for their work and say you're said to see them leave. Not her. I gave her what she wanted, which is my resignation and she's still taking the chance to put me down.


She has severe insecurities I believe. After all, she told me in January her job for the year was to "learn to love herself". It says a lot.

Everybody above her told me I've done a fantastic job and my resignation is the worst news of the year, yet she on the other hand has no shame.

I'm telling you, once I'm out, I'm never looking back. There's plenty of other companies out there and I have connections elsewhere within this company to come back into an different office should I want to.


As far as me having lost self-respect because I was "bullied". It's not as simple. When you work in a company, you have to be incredibly careful before bringing this word into the mix. This may create severe issues and you can't go around saying someone is bullying you as there are real accusations. Now, the way the went on about it was subtle, so that they wouldn't cross the line, but it was indeed bullying.

Regardless, the managers above her that are supportive know about the situation. They experienced the toxicity first hand, so I'm guessing I won't need to draw a picture.
LostinPhilly, I really do have empathy and sympathy for you. And I'm very glad for you that you’ve gotten a new job, and so you can leave that terrible manager as you described.

However, I disagree with the bolded paragraphs above. If I were in your situation, I would just give that manager my resignation letter and tell her my last day of working as in the letter and wait for a couple of seconds to see if she would have any question. If she did, I would tell her that I have explained everything in my letter. If she did not say anything, I would tell her I needed to get back to my work and leave. I would not say thank to her for anything because I could not tell lies; I knew in my heart I would not thank her for all the troubles she gave me. And I would not expect or want to hear any lies from her such as "I'm sad to see you're leaving ..." and I would not expect her to thank me for my work. When she hates someone so much, why would or should she say any such things. I hate to hear lies too. For me, it’s better not to say and hear fake things.

Anyway, be glad you’ve gotten a new job. Hope this new workplace, new manager(s) and co-workers are better than the old ones. It’s important that you learn from your mistakes and learn how to get along with others. Learn not to work so hard and bend backward to help others so much; otherwise, people will push their work on you, and you will have lots more work to do, and you will be burned out, stressed, depressed and resentful. Learn to work smart, not to work hard. Learn to go with the flow.

Regarding reporting about that manager to the HR during the exit interview, forget it. In general, most people, even your friends, best friends, relatives, co-workers, not to mention managers, HR, big bosses, just want to hear what they want to hear, which should be the nice things. The higher position, the more egos they have, they never want to hear you to point out their faults or “negative” things. If you do that they will say you are judgmental, negative, not a happy camper, not a team player. And they will give you more hardship. Not good for you.

You just have to swallow your hurt and pain and move on. You are leaving anyway. You won’t have to suffer whatever bad happens there anymore. The problems in that company are no longer yours. Let that company, the management team and the HR to deal with them. Move on and enjoy your life.

Last edited by AnOrdinaryCitizen; 03-31-2019 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,907 posts, read 25,369,716 times
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Take the recommendation letters from the higher ups and run like hell. Never burn bridges you don't have to burn. You have nothing to gain by going to HR. It can only hurt you.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:29 PM
 
Location: S.W. Florida
2,226 posts, read 942,516 times
Reputation: 6273
Exit interviews are absolutely worthless for being a mechanism to “throw someone under the bus”. The HR person will write down the things you say, the form will be attached to your file, and that’s the end of that. If you’re thinking of using this process as a way to really let em’ have it, don’t waste your time. People somehow think that the exit interview is the place to “get even” or spill the beans on what’s wrong with the company or a certain manager. Or worse yet, to finally tell the company just how lousy they are.

Here’s what exit interviews are really used for: they are used to glean information about how to reduce attrition. Once you start with the negative comments about a person or the company, it’s all just going through the motions. Companies need to understand how to stop the bleeding so they will ask predetermined questions to pull that info from you. They will not waste their time on negativity.

Sometimes I’ll hear someone say their exit interview only took 10 minutes, while someone else will say theirs took 45 minutes. Guess which one is actually beneficial? The other one will never see the light of day and will be immediately forgotten.

The time to address specific complaints is while you’re still working, not when you are headed out the door.

Last edited by Ron61; 03-31-2019 at 01:33 PM.. Reason: Grammar
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:03 PM
 
17,348 posts, read 10,264,229 times
Reputation: 28954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron61 View Post
Exit interviews are absolutely worthless for being a mechanism to “throw someone under the bus”. The HR person will write down the things you say, the form will be attached to your file, and that’s the end of that. If you’re thinking of using this process as a way to really let em’ have it, don’t waste your time. People somehow think that the exit interview is the place to “get even” or spill the beans on what’s wrong with the company or a certain manager. Or worse yet, to finally tell the company just how lousy they are.

Here’s what exit interviews are really used for: they are used to glean information about how to reduce attrition. Once you start with the negative comments about a person or the company, it’s all just going through the motions. Companies need to understand how to stop the bleeding so they will ask predetermined questions to pull that info from you. They will not waste their time on negativity.

Sometimes I’ll hear someone say their exit interview only took 10 minutes, while someone else will say theirs took 45 minutes. Guess which one is actually beneficial? The other one will never see the light of day and will be immediately forgotten.

The time to address specific complaints is while you’re still working, not when you are headed out the door.
Great post as usual.

Ron61 is exactly right.

HR is there to protect management, not the rank and file. It's unfortunate in this day and age people still refuse to acknowledge this. We are not that special to a corporation as we think we are.

In my previous job, we had a manager that treated a few people badly and was in general a d-bag (he was nice to me for some reason). Two people who quit specifically tried to throw this manager under the bus during the exit interview. Not surprisingly, nothing happened to the manager who was eventually fired for something unrelated to any of that.

In regards to your last statement, I realize hindsight is 20/20, but again, it goes back to the OP not addressing this when the manager was initially disrespectful. Not only did the OP not do anything, but the OP continued to allow the manager to treat them disrespectfully. As an article I posted in another thread mentions, if someone stands up to a bully the first time something happens, one of two things can happen. The person can either be fired, or the bully learns to back off and respect the person. Either way, the person's dignity and self respect is preserved. Not doing anything at all leads to the OP's situation where the anger and resentment builds over many months.

Most of the people on this thread are correctly advising the OP to move on and let it go. But I am still leaning towards the OP venting out during the exit interview.

One thing that's often overlooked when leaving a job is that it is like leaving a relationship. You need closure from one thing before moving onto the other. For some people like me, that closure is simply leaving a job on very good terms regardless of how badly I may have been treated (I never said anything bad or threw anyone under the bus in all of my exit interviews going back two decades). For others like the OP, this might not be an option as there is a lot of bitterness and anger still. So if it makes the OP feel better venting out everything during the exit interview, so be it. Anything to help the closure process as I see it.
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
10,022 posts, read 16,703,808 times
Reputation: 6427
The turnover data speaks for itself. They know what the problem is, if they care, and if they don't they don't care.

As others have said move on and 'speak well of the dead'.
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:25 PM
 
1,723 posts, read 566,844 times
Reputation: 3666
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
I'm not ever planning on coming back to this office. There's nobody left in the office due to the poor management. Everybody who has left never came back even after 10 years.
So is it worth the black mark you could have on file at that company for years just to tell this person off to HR? Why wouldn't you keep the door open with that company to work there again?

I've only burned bridges with one company in my life, and in hindsight it wasn't worth it.
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