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Old 03-31-2019, 08:00 PM
 
3,771 posts, read 5,471,135 times
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Don't criticize anyone. You could say that your manager advised that you are meant for bigger things and should work somewhere else. So you are. And leave it at that, even if asked to elaborate.
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:37 AM
 
125 posts, read 72,771 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Wow, yeah, it's exactly what I am encountering. The management will indeed always find an excuse to blame the former employee.

13 is nothing compared to the amount our department lost ..

When I started, we were about 30 analysts (back in 2016). Now that I'm leaving, they only have 4 left.
Well, there’s only 4-5 on my team, so cycling thru 13 is a lot! Lol
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:56 AM
 
528 posts, read 618,090 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Hi all,

I've been at my job for about 3 years now. I decided to resign on Thursday to move to another company, hopefully with a healthier environment.

Our department has a huge turnover with approximately 1 to 2 resignations per month. This has led to having some team leads end up with no reports at all. Consequently, there are more team leaders & manager than actual analysts.

About 7 months after I started my job, my current manager got appointed. She's around my age and clearly has some confidence issues with she transfers onto me. She's never liked me from the moment she saw me even she she was not yet a manager. I remember once going up to her to tell her someone had called and wanted to speak to her, she didn't even want to look at me and kept looking at her screen, no thank you nothing.

You can imagine my shock when she became a manager, my manager. On top of this, I don't have a team, I'm the only one covering my desk/market. From that point onwards, it was belittling after belittling moments. She would ignore our 1-1 and whenever we'd have one, she would focus on the following:

- I should change departments because I'm supposedly meant for bigger things.

Mind you, I'm a top performer. I've received countless positive feedbacks from senior management on various operations I conducted across different jurisdictions.

- She cannot promote me because I'm not a social butterfly. I need to socialize more otherwise my manager won't be able to approve my promotion. Yet, I was still getting positive reviews from senior management.

- When the head of our department overseas granted me the opportunity to work on their biggest clients, she decided to make me work on a completely different market on my own (which I never cover) which requires approximately 2 employees to cover properly. When I brought it up to the head of the department saying that my work on top of this project on top of me covering for a market I'm not even assigned to is not realistic, my direct manager said I'm lying and I don't have any work to do.

This is absolutely not true as the head of the department overseas has a direct visibility on my workload and thus knew I'd screw up my own market & this big project if I were to take on a different market in addition which I was never assigned to in the first place. My manager wanted to basically make me work on an additional market without the consent of the head of the department I work with and later on called me "unprofessional" for bringing the issue to the head's awareness.

- After the last teammate I was close with left, she decided to completely ignore me for weeks on end. She would talk to other people and not me even though we didn't have any argument or anything. She blatantly ignored me, so that I would feel isolated.

- When I submitted my resignation, her response was: "This is happening. Wow. Well, this company is not your place. You're meant for bigger things and you may want to come back at some stage, but I suggest you do not".

- She said that if she didn't walk past my desk, she wouldn't know I exist (it's a blatant lie, she gets feedback emails from senior management about me on a monthly basis because of how great I was doing my job and she said I don't exist?).

When I announced my departure to the higher management abroad (above her), several of them jump on the occasion to write me a recommendations/reference etc ... All of them said I did a fantastic job and are really shocked I'm leaving. However, since I don't report to them, they can't offer anything especially as the company is going under restructuring. These are the people who wrote countless of emails to my direct manager to praise my work and she never bat an eyelash.

One time, I received a kuddos from the EMEA head and she ignored the email for an entire week. Everyone had responded by saying they agreed with him on the fact that I did an amazing job, except her. She responded a week later pretending she hadn't seen it when it's a lie. She reads all of her emails, especially from the EMEA head. She always responds to emails in 2 minutes and of course, when it was time to praise me, she ignored.

Anyway, you get the point. I feel like throwing her under the bus on my way out as there's no way I'm ever coming back to a department that has gone down the drain.

Do you reckon I should advise HR of her ways in a diplomatic manner? Or should I address those with her?

You already left so just leave without saying anything and move on to the next gig.
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Old 04-01-2019, 08:58 AM
 
Location: A tropical island
4,566 posts, read 4,433,844 times
Reputation: 11210
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Basically, I spoke about the situation to a couple of people.

The managers that are supportive of me and way above her, advised that I schedule a meeting with her & her own manager to tell them my truth.

My friends advised that I discuss with HR in a black & white manner, leaving the emotional piece aside and putting the facts on the table.


Now, I am sorry, but she calls herself a "feminist" yet needs to dim other women's shine to feel good about herself. This is not being a feminist, this is being petty.

In all fairness, when I gave my resignation, I did thank her for her for everything she's done and yadi yada, but 5 minutes later her passive-aggressiveness came through again. I mean, I know she doesn't like me yet even on my way out, she's still trying to bring me down. This is pure pettiness. There was no "I'm sad to see you're leaving ..." nothing. It was straight to the comments I indicated in my OP above.

Normally, when your employee resigns, you play it politically correct regardless of whether you liked them or not. You thank them for their work and say you're said to see them leave. Not her. I gave her what she wanted, which is my resignation and she's still taking the chance to put me down.

She has severe insecurities I believe. After all, she told me in January her job for the year was to "learn to love herself". It says a lot.

Everybody above her told me I've done a fantastic job and my resignation is the worst news of the year, yet she on the other hand has no shame.

I'm telling you, once I'm out, I'm never looking back. There's plenty of other companies out there and I have connections elsewhere within this company to come back into an different office should I want to.


As far as me having lost self-respect because I was "bullied". It's not as simple. When you work in a company, you have to be incredibly careful before bringing this word into the mix. This may create severe issues and you can't go around saying someone is bullying you as there are real accusations. Now, the way the went on about it was subtle, so that they wouldn't cross the line, but it was indeed bullying.

Regardless, the managers above her that are supportive know about the situation. They experienced the toxicity first hand, so I'm guessing I won't need to draw a picture.
It sounds like you are determined to have this conversation with HR, despite the many wise posts strongly advising you don't. But then, I knew as much from your first post. You do not really want advice. You want another place to vent about how horrible your manager is. And you will not be able to let this go until you vent to HR about it.

I know it's pointless for me to say this, but DO NOT go into detail with HR. There is probably not one person here (or anywhere, for that matter) who has not worked for a scummy/cruel/unqualified/toxic/fill in the blank manager. We could ALL write pages about it.

It can be very perplexing why horrible managers keep their positions. In some cases from my work experience, there was blackmail over a physical affair, various forms of office politics, and who knows what else behind the scenes drama.

It is said that people do not quit jobs, they quit managers. That saying right there tells you how common your problem is. And if there is some kind of behind the scenes politics or blackmail going on, your venting will not, CANNOT, cause this manager to be scrutinized.

Just rise above this. Be the bigger person. If you need someone to validate your complaints, you've got it, right here, with me, and probably a whole lot of others here. We feel your frustration, truly. We've been right where you are. Twice in my career I did give a whole laundry list of valid complaints in my exit interview (yeah, I didn't learn the futility of it the first time), and it accomplished nothing other than knowing I got targeted as a whiner. Long story, that I won't go into, but it did come back to bite me. Managers and HR people in various companies talk to each other, especially when they're interviewing candidates for a position. Do you want your "whining" to be talked about when you're trying get a new job somewhere down the road?
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:24 AM
 
4,023 posts, read 2,605,489 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
Take the recommendation letters from the higher ups and run like hell. Never burn bridges you don't have to burn. You have nothing to gain by going to HR. It can only hurt you.
This. You never know what will happen. Even if you never go back to your company, people change jobs and you may find someone who worked at your old company is in the future a supervisor in your new company. They also could be golf buddies or their kids could play on the same soccer team and they start swapping work stories and your name could come up.

There is no benefit to saying anything to HR because nothing will change and there are some downsides.
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:24 AM
 
1,918 posts, read 2,959,523 times
Reputation: 2489
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Hi all,

I've been at my job for about 3 years now. I decided to resign on Thursday to move to another company, hopefully with a healthier environment.

Our department has a huge turnover with approximately 1 to 2 resignations per month. This has led to having some team leads end up with no reports at all. Consequently, there are more team leaders & manager than actual analysts.

About 7 months after I started my job, my current manager got appointed. She's around my age and clearly has some confidence issues with she transfers onto me. She's never liked me from the moment she saw me even she she was not yet a manager. I remember once going up to her to tell her someone had called and wanted to speak to her, she didn't even want to look at me and kept looking at her screen, no thank you nothing.

You can imagine my shock when she became a manager, my manager. On top of this, I don't have a team, I'm the only one covering my desk/market. From that point onwards, it was belittling after belittling moments. She would ignore our 1-1 and whenever we'd have one, she would focus on the following:

- I should change departments because I'm supposedly meant for bigger things.

Mind you, I'm a top performer. I've received countless positive feedbacks from senior management on various operations I conducted across different jurisdictions.

- She cannot promote me because I'm not a social butterfly. I need to socialize more otherwise my manager won't be able to approve my promotion. Yet, I was still getting positive reviews from senior management.

- When the head of our department overseas granted me the opportunity to work on their biggest clients, she decided to make me work on a completely different market on my own (which I never cover) which requires approximately 2 employees to cover properly. When I brought it up to the head of the department saying that my work on top of this project on top of me covering for a market I'm not even assigned to is not realistic, my direct manager said I'm lying and I don't have any work to do.

This is absolutely not true as the head of the department overseas has a direct visibility on my workload and thus knew I'd screw up my own market & this big project if I were to take on a different market in addition which I was never assigned to in the first place. My manager wanted to basically make me work on an additional market without the consent of the head of the department I work with and later on called me "unprofessional" for bringing the issue to the head's awareness.

- After the last teammate I was close with left, she decided to completely ignore me for weeks on end. She would talk to other people and not me even though we didn't have any argument or anything. She blatantly ignored me, so that I would feel isolated.

- When I submitted my resignation, her response was: "This is happening. Wow. Well, this company is not your place. You're meant for bigger things and you may want to come back at some stage, but I suggest you do not".

- She said that if she didn't walk past my desk, she wouldn't know I exist (it's a blatant lie, she gets feedback emails from senior management about me on a monthly basis because of how great I was doing my job and she said I don't exist?).

When I announced my departure to the higher management abroad (above her), several of them jump on the occasion to write me a recommendations/reference etc ... All of them said I did a fantastic job and are really shocked I'm leaving. However, since I don't report to them, they can't offer anything especially as the company is going under restructuring. These are the people who wrote countless of emails to my direct manager to praise my work and she never bat an eyelash.

One time, I received a kuddos from the EMEA head and she ignored the email for an entire week. Everyone had responded by saying they agreed with him on the fact that I did an amazing job, except her. She responded a week later pretending she hadn't seen it when it's a lie. She reads all of her emails, especially from the EMEA head. She always responds to emails in 2 minutes and of course, when it was time to praise me, she ignored.

Anyway, you get the point. I feel like throwing her under the bus on my way out as there's no way I'm ever coming back to a department that has gone down the drain.

Do you reckon I should advise HR of her ways in a diplomatic manner? Or should I address those with her?
Let it go and move on. Nothing you say will change things, and it sounds like the company is a complete and utter mess. You'll gain nothing by bashing them, so move on and look forward to a brighter future.

SS
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:57 AM
 
1,092 posts, read 1,272,916 times
Reputation: 737
No?

HR wont notify her or senior management anyway until it becomes a problem for the company. if after 3 years, still an analyst company doesn't value you period. Furthermore, recognition incentives are just a "kudos' they mean nothing and have no substance. Think of it this way, the value of an incentive is determined by how much effort was required. Saying thanks for doing your job requires no effort and no tangible benefits comes of it.

Funny thing about analysts, they are replaceable and entry level roles no matter how long/ responsibilities/ exp. Your department has high turnover because limited opportunities for growth aka your company refuses to invest in the employees that work in your department. People there hit the wall fast.

Career progression in corporate America is pretty much universal. An analyst is an analyst. An associate is an associate. A VP etc. It sounds like your company wanted to keep costs low hence the hierarchy in you department is prob. like:

Analyst 1
Analyst 2
"Team Leader" aka Analyst 3
"IDK" Analyst 4 but really should be called Associate

boom

Manager

Many companies do this crap to keep costs low.

Last edited by MilksFavoriteCookie; 04-01-2019 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:50 AM
 
794 posts, read 211,208 times
Reputation: 1322
It can be a faulty assumption that management cares about turnover and employee's opinions about management and most importantly, wants to address the issue. Unfortunately, management will often turn a blind eye to this issues unless it affects revenue, stock price or potential lawsuits. As an HR professional, problematic turnover statistics and employee feedback, were met with "maybe you haven't hired the right employees."

The same managers who were responsible for high turnover were the ones who complained that HR didn't fill their vacancies fast enough.

THe way to tell if a company cares about turnover is how much they invest in proactively addressing employee morale not just conducting perfunctory exit interviews. An exit interview is far too late and in some cases is done largely to assess whether there is a potential discrimination complaint.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:19 AM
 
780 posts, read 203,266 times
Reputation: 1134
Exit interviews are designed to capture the reasons why you are leaving, and to get a sense of how the department operates, what's working, and what isn't. The exit interview would be the ideal place to outline your grievances. But keep in mind there is as much as art to this as a science. Don't use this as a vent session to bad mouth management or your team. Talk about the things you liked about working there, and if you have a grievance about how something worked, word it in a productive manner. For instance, instead of something like, "Our department manager was lousy and never gave me a chance to get promoted," use something like, "Career advancement and development seemed limited during my time here. I think there is a great opportunity to implement a better program for this". Again, don't use this as a bash session. Word your grievances in a manner than doesn't paint you as someone with an axe to grind. If HR is competent, and management has any incentive to retain employees, then they will take your feedback seriously. I realize there are just some dysfunctional organizations out there, and they won't always use your feedback productively. But at least you did you part by sharing.

Once again, I don't understand the pessimism and distrust that comes across on these forums. Well, I do get it. People who have negative outlooks and like to complain the most tend to post more online than those who would offer any sort of practical, encouraging insights. Some will argue they're "just being realistic", but the world isn't all doom and gloom and full of mistrust and vengeance.
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Old 04-01-2019, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
5,104 posts, read 5,390,118 times
Reputation: 12612
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Hi all,

I've been at my job for about 3 years now. I decided to resign on Thursday to move to another company, hopefully with a healthier environment.

Our department has a huge turnover with approximately 1 to 2 resignations per month. This has led to having some team leads end up with no reports at all. Consequently, there are more team leaders & manager than actual analysts.

About 7 months after I started my job, my current manager got appointed. She's around my age and clearly has some confidence issues with she transfers onto me. She's never liked me from the moment she saw me even she she was not yet a manager. I remember once going up to her to tell her someone had called and wanted to speak to her, she didn't even want to look at me and kept looking at her screen, no thank you nothing.

You can imagine my shock when she became a manager, my manager. On top of this, I don't have a team, I'm the only one covering my desk/market. From that point onwards, it was belittling after belittling moments. She would ignore our 1-1 and whenever we'd have one, she would focus on the following:

- I should change departments because I'm supposedly meant for bigger things.

Mind you, I'm a top performer. I've received countless positive feedbacks from senior management on various operations I conducted across different jurisdictions.

- She cannot promote me because I'm not a social butterfly. I need to socialize more otherwise my manager won't be able to approve my promotion. Yet, I was still getting positive reviews from senior management.

- When the head of our department overseas granted me the opportunity to work on their biggest clients, she decided to make me work on a completely different market on my own (which I never cover) which requires approximately 2 employees to cover properly. When I brought it up to the head of the department saying that my work on top of this project on top of me covering for a market I'm not even assigned to is not realistic, my direct manager said I'm lying and I don't have any work to do.

This is absolutely not true as the head of the department overseas has a direct visibility on my workload and thus knew I'd screw up my own market & this big project if I were to take on a different market in addition which I was never assigned to in the first place. My manager wanted to basically make me work on an additional market without the consent of the head of the department I work with and later on called me "unprofessional" for bringing the issue to the head's awareness.

- After the last teammate I was close with left, she decided to completely ignore me for weeks on end. She would talk to other people and not me even though we didn't have any argument or anything. She blatantly ignored me, so that I would feel isolated.

- When I submitted my resignation, her response was: "This is happening. Wow. Well, this company is not your place. You're meant for bigger things and you may want to come back at some stage, but I suggest you do not".

- She said that if she didn't walk past my desk, she wouldn't know I exist (it's a blatant lie, she gets feedback emails from senior management about me on a monthly basis because of how great I was doing my job and she said I don't exist?).

When I announced my departure to the higher management abroad (above her), several of them jump on the occasion to write me a recommendations/reference etc ... All of them said I did a fantastic job and are really shocked I'm leaving. However, since I don't report to them, they can't offer anything especially as the company is going under restructuring. These are the people who wrote countless of emails to my direct manager to praise my work and she never bat an eyelash.

One time, I received a kuddos from the EMEA head and she ignored the email for an entire week. Everyone had responded by saying they agreed with him on the fact that I did an amazing job, except her. She responded a week later pretending she hadn't seen it when it's a lie. She reads all of her emails, especially from the EMEA head. She always responds to emails in 2 minutes and of course, when it was time to praise me, she ignored.

Anyway, you get the point. I feel like throwing her under the bus on my way out as there's no way I'm ever coming back to a department that has gone down the drain.

Do you reckon I should advise HR of her ways in a diplomatic manner? Or should I address those with her?
I wouldn't bother with either one. It'll just sound like sour grapes and probably wouldn't be taken seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
It sounds like you are determined to have this conversation with HR, despite the many wise posts strongly advising you don't.
Par for the course for OP. Ask for advice and then go against the consensus.

Last edited by HokieFan; 04-01-2019 at 12:33 PM..
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