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Old 04-01-2019, 01:41 PM
 
832 posts, read 218,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
OP, FWIW, I had a co-worker put her resignation a couple weeks ago after being here less than one year. Her premature departure was largely due to being treated poorly by fellow co-workers whom she supported and worked with. Our manager was well aware of these issues and has indicated a number of times that she's tried to address the problem employees on her team. She told my departing co-worker to tell HR everything in the exit interview. I believe that my manager is looking for HR to help her with this situation, and she needs things to be documented.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, exit interviews can be useful to effective and proactive HR teams if you are tactful about it. Don't use it as an opportunity to bash anyone and anything. Use it to productively explain opportunities for improvement. Just be smart about it. An HR team that is adept at doing their jobs will be able to read between the lines and use your information productively.
Problem employees and problem managers are two different things. A manager was either internally promoted into the position or hired from the outside. So, identifying a manager as the problem is something many do not want to hear as it requires the superior to admit the promotion or hire was a mistake and something needs to be done.

Using statements like "exit interviews are designed to" is naivete; yes, we know what they are designed to do. However the actual practice can be something entirely different. As I stated earlier, a company that needs exiting employees to tell them what is wrong is the tail wagging the dog. THere are many ways to proactively evaluate a work environment to retain employees so a good company does not need for terminating employees to tell them what is wrong.

The only time I provided a completely candid exit interview was to get on record (in writing) how condescending a male manager was to female employees and his sexist attitude was repelling. My purpose was to make sure that the company could not later claim that they were unaware of the problem in the event of a legal action from subsequent female employees.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:46 PM
 
17,319 posts, read 10,241,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
Sure, venting online can be therapeutic. But I've been following this forum off and on for 10 years, and let's just say that the posters venting 5-10 years ago are the same posters venting today. So, therapeutic or not, most people venting here have seemingly done very little to actually make their lives any better off. So back to my point. Most people who spend lots of time venting on forums are negative, pessimistic people to begin with. So no matter what positive or encouraging feedback you share with the community, you're going to get shouted over anyway by all the other 'venters who are seeking therapy'. They call that an echo chamber.

I'm not drinking any kool aid, as I've got plenty of grievances about places I've worked. And I've even shared some during exit interviews without having my entire career upended. Imagine that.
Can't rep you enough.

OP has been given plenty of advice but people like the OP aren't really seeking 'advice' on here. They are looking to vent and look for people that agree with their views, and if not, they'll argue their point repeatedly.

I personally find that insulting to those of us who spend our time giving constructive and meaningful advice, but hey, I suppose we should have known better the motives of these types of people on this forum. But why even title these threads, "should I do this or that in this situation," when they are going to do their own thing regardless.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:52 PM
 
780 posts, read 205,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie104 View Post
Problem employees and problem managers are two different things. A manager was either internally promoted into the position or hired from the outside. So, identifying a manager as the problem is something many do not want to hear as it requires the superior to admit the promotion or hire was a mistake and something needs to be done.

Using statements like "exit interviews are designed to" is naivete; yes, we know what they are designed to do. However the actual practice can be something entirely different. As I stated earlier, a company that needs exiting employees to tell them what is wrong is the tail waging the dog. THere are many ways to proactively evaluate a work environment to retain employees so a good company does not need for terminating employees to tell them what is wrong.

The only time I provided a completely candid exit interview was to get on record (in writing) how condescending a male manager was to female employees and his sexist attitude was repelling. My purpose was to make sure that the company could not later claim that they were unaware of the problem in the event of a legal action from subsequent female employees.
HR isn't aware of all the unfolding drama that is actively happening within every department of an organization.

It seems perfectly reasonable that the group responsible for hiring and retaining talent for an organization would like feedback as to how things can be done better. Whether it's done proactively through annual employee surveys, or by way of exit interviews, I don't see what difference it makes how data is collected. At least by way of exit interviews, the outgoing employee maybe feel more protected in that they are no longer accountable to a manager who may try to retaliate while under their leadership. Unless of course you run into one of these deranged, psychopath managers who pursue you after your departure to allegedly try to derail your career elsewhere, in whatever dystopian universe that is. I've never personally run into that in over 15 years of my career, but maybe that's just my naivete shining.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:20 PM
 
832 posts, read 218,802 times
Reputation: 1384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
HR isn't aware of all the unfolding drama that is actively happening within every department of an organization.

It seems perfectly reasonable that the group responsible for hiring and retaining talent for an organization would like feedback as to how things can be done better. Whether it's done proactively through annual employee surveys, or by way of exit interviews, I don't see what difference it makes how data is collected. At least by way of exit interviews, the outgoing employee maybe feel more protected in that they are no longer accountable to a manager who may try to retaliate while under their leadership. Unless of course you run into one of these deranged, psychopath managers who pursue you after your departure to allegedly try to derail your career elsewhere, in whatever dystopian universe that is. I've never personally run into that in over 15 years of my career, but maybe that's just my naivete shining.
It's actually just the opposite of what you suggest -- annual employee surveys allow for things to be corrected before an employee leaves and current employees are more likely to be truthful since they have a vested benefit in seeing a change. Departing employees have no vested interest in what happens to the organization and, as many commented here, and do not want to burn bridges. I have conducted over a thousand exit interviews and probably less 5% if that provided constructive info. Many are simply going through the motions so I long abandoned the notion that exit interviews will yield constructive information. Instead, I instituted new employee follow-ups, employee climate surveys and 360 performance evaluations.

I conducted field interviews of employees with problematic managers (based on turnover) obtained good intel about the manager and the manager was left in place despite the feedback. So, I know of what I speak.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:34 PM
 
780 posts, read 205,257 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie104 View Post
It's actually just the opposite of what you suggest -- annual employee surveys allow for things to be corrected before an employee leaves and current employees are more likely to be truthful since they have a vested benefit in seeing a change. Departing employees have no vested interest in what happens to the organization and, as many commented here, and do not want to burn bridges. I have conducted over a thousand exit interviews and probably less 5% if that provided constructive info. Many are simply going through the motions so I long abandoned the notion that exit interviews will yield constructive information. Instead, I instituted new employee follow-ups, employee climate surveys and 360 performance evaluations.

I conducted field interviews of employees with problematic managers (based on turnover) obtained good intel about the manager and the manager was left in place despite the feedback. So, I know of what I speak.

Maybe you didn't receive constructive feedback because, like many have asserted here, they all believe the boogie man is going to chase them around for the rest of their career. Of course, the boogie man in this example being a metaphor for psychotic manager who follows you around after you leave an organization to bad mouth you to other organizations. I've never experienced this in my entire career, and I've been entirely honest during all exit interviews I've received. And FWIW, if I'm giving a negative review about a particular manager or management style, then they aren't a professional reference I care about 99.99% of the time.

If you are tactful, I don't really understand how you'd be burning any bridges. Obviously, you want to use this time wisely and not spend it bad mouthing anyone you have disdain for. You can be completely honest and tactful during these exit interviews while giving HR valuable insights that they can use or not use. And as far as not having a vested interest, that's not true either. Whenever I leave an organization, I'm usually leaving co-workers and people whom I've had great relationships with and remain in touch with. If for nothing to benefit me, I may share feedback that may benefit them going forward. And I don't necessarily care if they don't get rid of an abusive or poor manager immediately. For me, it's about establishing the paper trail for when the day of reckoning may come. And in those cases, I'm usually only bringing something up if you're abusing your role and it's impacting a lot of people.

And as far as useless tactics go, let's talk about 360 reviews. I've had those back fire as well, especially when you get a spiteful co-worker who doesn't know anything about what you do but gives negative feedback anyway because they are generally a negative person. Even while 95% of the feedback is generally positive, it's always the negative that sticks out and can be used against you if you get on the wrong side of a bad manager. They can be used as a retaliatory tool as well as any of this can, and maybe more so since you're still working within the organization.

While I respect your experience, it's exclusively your experience. Mine has been vastly different.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:42 PM
 
1,714 posts, read 561,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan123 View Post
Most multinational companies have a local HR function but the vast majority of the time, all HR functions report back through the chain of command to the head of HR at the company's principal place of business. You're kidding yourself if you think that what you say to HR in a location won't be disseminated to other HR functions (and possibly to other business entities) in the company.

My point, and the point of many other posters, is that you're not just burning bridges in one office. People move within a company(including transfers to international locations) and to different companies. Companies themselves get bought and sold. You never know what the future holds.
Exactly.

I burned bridges with one company in my life, and I won't make that mistake again. The company I'm currently at employs my old CFO's wife (who knows me by name). The head of a recruiting firm I wanted to start to use knows me, because one of their lead recruiters is friends with an old boss. The world is smaller than we think, and burning bridges makes that dangerous.

Beyond that, all it takes is for one warning to go on file from one person in HR in any branch, and that warning could pop up 10 years from now. Is it really worth the potential problems it can cause a career to feel good for a few hours from "telling him/her off" to HR on your way out the door?
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:46 PM
 
832 posts, read 218,802 times
Reputation: 1384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
Maybe you didn't receive constructive feedback because, like many have asserted here, they all believe the boogie man is going to chase them around for the rest of their career. Of course, the boogie man in this example being a metaphor for psychotic manager who follows you around after you leave an organization to bad mouth you to other organizations. I've never experienced this in my entire career, and I've been entirely honest during all exit interviews I've received.

If you are tactful, I don't really understand how you'd be burning any bridges. Obviously, you want to use this time wisely and not spend it bad mouthing anyone you have disdain for. You can be completely honest and tactful during these exit interviews. And as far as not having a vested interest, that's not true either. Whenever I leave an organization, I'm usually leaving co-workers and people whom I've had great relationships with and remain in touch with. If for nothing to benefit me, I may share feedback that may benefit them going forward. And I don't necessarily care if they don't get rid of an abusive or poor manager immediately. For me, it's about establishing the paper trail for when the day of reckoning may come. And in those cases, I'm usually only bringing something up if you're abusing your role and it's impacting a lot of people.

And as far as useless tactics go, let's talk about 360 reviews. I've had those back fire as well, especially when you get a spiteful co-worker who doesn't know anything about what you do but gives negative feedback anyway because they are generally a negative person. Even while 95% of the feedback is generally positive, it's always the negative that sticks out and can be used against you if you get on the wrong side of a bad manager.

While I respect your experience, it's exclusively your experience. Mine has been vastly different.

Your experience appears antecdotal based on a sample of one (yourself); whereas mine is based on actual exit interviews, employee surveys, performance appraisals with large and small companies including thousands of employees of various levels. The questions you raise reveal the limit of your actual experience. My reply is a counterpoint to your earlier post casting aspersions on posters critical of exit interviews. For the most part I agree with them.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:49 PM
 
780 posts, read 205,257 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie104 View Post
Your experience appears antecdotal based on a sample of one (yourself); whereas mine is based on actual exit interviews, employee surveys, performance appraisals with large and small companies including thousands of employees of various levels. The questions you raise reveal the limit of your actual experience. My reply is a counterpoint to your earlier post casting aspersions on posters critical of exit interviews. For the most part I agree with them.
Appearances can be deceptive, especially on a completely anonymous forum. You know nothing about my experiences; let's not pretend a few paragraphs paints my entire life's picture.

If ya'll think exit interviews are a complete waste of time, then just don't participate in them. If they ask you for one, just tell them you do not wish to participate. Maybe companies should get rid of them entirely since they are apparently such a waste of time and resources and nobody is telling the truth anyway. In fact, let's just do away with all feedback receptor tools, because those are probably full of BS, too, from people worried about retaliation. Apparently, we live in a society where giving your (critical) feedback on a subject is catastrophic, and we should all just continue walking on egg shells as to not disrupt the balance of social order. Let's get rid of Yelp, because restaurateurs may find you down the road and spit in your food, or have one of their friends at another restaurant do it. Let's do away with Uber/Lyft ride reviews, because you might get blacklisted by a driver who retaliates with a bad review of you. Let's do away with Glassdoor reviews, because HR/management can find out who you are and retaliate against the negative reviews. By golly, let's just not be critical of anything anymore, because then you're just going to get retaliated against, you'll never be able to find work again, and your life will be completely ruined and OVER! Ahhhhhh!!!!

This a complete and utter breakdown of accountability. Meanwhile, I read all sorts of threads and comments on this forum about how it's completely acceptable and ethical for a spiteful ex-manager to bad mouth you to anybody and everybody with zero repercussions. That's okay, but don't you dare say a single thing that may be construed as negative about a workplace because your life will be ruined forever. Then they wonder why we are so cynical of all the fearmongering tactics deployed around the interwebs by paid shills.

Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; 04-01-2019 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:49 PM
 
4,069 posts, read 5,477,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Hi all,

I've been at my job for about 3 years now. I decided to resign on Thursday to move to another company, hopefully with a healthier environment.

Our department has a huge turnover with approximately 1 to 2 resignations per month. This has led to having some team leads end up with no reports at all. Consequently, there are more team leaders & manager than actual analysts.

About 7 months after I started my job, my current manager got appointed. She's around my age and clearly has some confidence issues with she transfers onto me. She's never liked me from the moment she saw me even she she was not yet a manager. I remember once going up to her to tell her someone had called and wanted to speak to her, she didn't even want to look at me and kept looking at her screen, no thank you nothing.

You can imagine my shock when she became a manager, my manager. On top of this, I don't have a team, I'm the only one covering my desk/market. From that point onwards, it was belittling after belittling moments. She would ignore our 1-1 and whenever we'd have one, she would focus on the following:

- I should change departments because I'm supposedly meant for bigger things.

Mind you, I'm a top performer. I've received countless positive feedbacks from senior management on various operations I conducted across different jurisdictions.

- She cannot promote me because I'm not a social butterfly. I need to socialize more otherwise my manager won't be able to approve my promotion. Yet, I was still getting positive reviews from senior management.

- When the head of our department overseas granted me the opportunity to work on their biggest clients, she decided to make me work on a completely different market on my own (which I never cover) which requires approximately 2 employees to cover properly. When I brought it up to the head of the department saying that my work on top of this project on top of me covering for a market I'm not even assigned to is not realistic, my direct manager said I'm lying and I don't have any work to do.

This is absolutely not true as the head of the department overseas has a direct visibility on my workload and thus knew I'd screw up my own market & this big project if I were to take on a different market in addition which I was never assigned to in the first place. My manager wanted to basically make me work on an additional market without the consent of the head of the department I work with and later on called me "unprofessional" for bringing the issue to the head's awareness.

- After the last teammate I was close with left, she decided to completely ignore me for weeks on end. She would talk to other people and not me even though we didn't have any argument or anything. She blatantly ignored me, so that I would feel isolated.

- When I submitted my resignation, her response was: "This is happening. Wow. Well, this company is not your place. You're meant for bigger things and you may want to come back at some stage, but I suggest you do not".

- She said that if she didn't walk past my desk, she wouldn't know I exist (it's a blatant lie, she gets feedback emails from senior management about me on a monthly basis because of how great I was doing my job and she said I don't exist?).

When I announced my departure to the higher management abroad (above her), several of them jump on the occasion to write me a recommendations/reference etc ... All of them said I did a fantastic job and are really shocked I'm leaving. However, since I don't report to them, they can't offer anything especially as the company is going under restructuring. These are the people who wrote countless of emails to my direct manager to praise my work and she never bat an eyelash.

One time, I received a kuddos from the EMEA head and she ignored the email for an entire week. Everyone had responded by saying they agreed with him on the fact that I did an amazing job, except her. She responded a week later pretending she hadn't seen it when it's a lie. She reads all of her emails, especially from the EMEA head. She always responds to emails in 2 minutes and of course, when it was time to praise me, she ignored.

Anyway, you get the point. I feel like throwing her under the bus on my way out as there's no way I'm ever coming back to a department that has gone down the drain.

Do you reckon I should advise HR of her ways in a diplomatic manner? Or should I address those with her?
Don't assume your boss and the others will still be there a year from now. Ladder climbers don't stay in the same position forever.

I have worked for over 15 years in corporate in the same industry. I regularly run into managers that I knew 10 years ago. Nowadays, those managers are directors and SVPs. They have more power and political capital than ever.
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Old 04-01-2019, 03:26 PM
 
832 posts, read 218,802 times
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Originally Posted by move4ward View Post
Don't assume your boss and the others will still be there a year from now. Ladder climbers don't stay in the same position forever.

I have worked for over 15 years in corporate in the same industry. I regularly run into managers that I knew 10 years ago. Nowadays, those managers are directors and SVPs. They have more power and political capital than ever.
This is so true. I was once hired to provide expert witness testimony that that testimony was highly critical of a VP of a large company. The testimony was used by the defense attorney to settle the case and apparently the VP was let go. A couple years later a former colleague started a company that had exerienced significant growth and he asked he if I would be interested in joining. To my shock and dismay, this VP was a director at this new company. I promptly withdrew from consideration.
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