Should I report these instances to HR during the exit inetrview? (maternity leave, employment)
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Based on some 80 posts, it is not "just me or someone I knew". I am in agreement with the majority. If anyone wants to post about a positive experience they had in reporting improper management behavior, they are welcome to do so.
This forum specifically is highly concentrated with negative-minded posters who have a deep disdain and distrust in the employee/employer dynamic. I don't expect that you'll get a fair and unbiased assessment of any workplace scenario here. Not to mention, of the 25-50 or so regular posters who participate here on a regular basis, I consider that to be an extremely minute sample size of the entire population of the US (not to mention the world). Ergo this is not reflective of the vast majority's opinion as you are alluding to. The audacity of anyone on this mom and pop forum to insinuate that the opinions expressed here are representative of the whole is asinine.
Meanwhile, in the real world, I've experienced some pretty toxic work places myself and never once experienced the sort of backlash and lifelong repercussions for speaking up about something unkosher or unethical during an exit interview. Most places I left, I left for a reason and will never go back. The people whom I left specifically for specific reasons I would never work with again. And if you're skill set, or job market is so limited in that you are extremely limited in where you work and with whom you work, then that is entirely on you. Make some changes.
Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; 04-02-2019 at 02:07 PM..
I've stood up to bullies in the workplace and triumphed. I've also stood up to bullies and got demoted and put on the shelf with nothing much to do for more than a year, a very depressing experience. But I stuck it out and it all turned out well in the end. You have to pick the battles that count, where your own self respect and possible survival on the job is at stake. Giving a negative exit interview is neither of those things and doesn't call for any courage, and will likely be written off as sour grapes. And you don't even know the manager's side of the story, which I'm guessing would sound as, if not more convincing than the OP's. After all, she had been trying to get rid of him, have him transfer out or whatever for a long time. She more than likely let her boss know what she was up to and why. And from her point of view she finally succeeded. This is true of all hierarchies, business, the military, government, the church, etc. The person who does the right thing at their own peril is rare, and at the highest levels, non-existent.
It doesn't sound like you have ever been in a corporate environment. Above a certain level all the players are playing politics for their own benefit. There's no one looking to do the right thing, especially when no one is looking.
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Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot
Just because you or someone you knew worked for pathetic individuals, poorly run organizations, and vengeful HR groups doesn't mean that everyone else needs to stop speaking up about unethical behavior and business practices. You think you're speaking wisdom to the masses, and I'm here just thinking about how ridiculous, sad, and pathetic it sounds that people like you are pushing the idea to keep your head buried in the sand and never take a stand for what's right. This is not wise or heroic, this is the promotion of cowardice plain and simple. If you want to be a submissive lap dog or corporate lackey, then I agree; do exactly what you're saying here. But if you have a spine and an upstanding ethos, then bloody speak up when someone is doing something wrong to you, to someone you know, to the community, or to the organization as a whole. I have spoken my full mind during exit interviews, good and bad, and not a single negative consequence has arisen as a result of this. And I have tons of other 2nd hand data points that support this as well.
Weak sauce! Imagine if we all hid in fear when the big, bad boogie man wreaked havoc and threatened to harm your reputation if you reported them for their malfeasance. I'm disgusted by some of the cowardly comments here. Americans used to stand up to bullies. Now they quiver at the sheer thought of saying something remotely critical about them in fear that their lives will be completely leveled as a result. Burning bridges? Even if they were so petty to blacklist you for criticizing something about the work environment, who the hell cares if you're burning a bridge to a toxic work environment and culture. There is a reason you're leaving such a place, and it's likely you'll never want to work at that place or with those toxic clowns again. What a crock of BS and lies!
I've stood up to bullies in the workplace and triumphed. I've also stood up to bullies and got demoted and put on the shelf for more than a year, but it all turned out well in the end. You have to pick the battles that count, where your own self respect and possible survival on the job is at stake. Giving a negative exit interview is neither of those things and doesn't call for any courage, and will sound like sour grapes. And you don't even know the manager's side of the story. Ride on, broomstick cowboy.
Providing fair, reasonable, and tactful criticisms (and praise) of a workplace environment is not sour grapes. Anyone who would treat it as such, and go so far as to retaliate against you years after in your career, well after moving on, is a lowly, pathetic subhuman piece of trash.
This forum specifically is highly concentrated with negative-minded posters who have a deep disdain and distrust in the employee/employer dynamic. I don't expect that you'll get a fair and unbiased assessment of any workplace scenario here. Not to mention, of the 25-50 or so regular posters who participate here on a regular basis, I consider that to be an extremely minute sample size of the entire population of the US (not to mention the world). Ergo this not reflective of the vast majority's opinion as you are alluding to.
Meanwhile, in the real world, I've experienced some pretty toxic work places myself and never once experienced the sort of backlash and lifelong repercussions for speaking up about something unkosher or unethical during an exit interview. Most places I left, I left for a reason and will never go back. The people whom I left specifically for specific reasons I would never work with again. And if you're skill set, or job market is so limited in that you are extremely limited in where you work and with whom you work, then that is entirely on you.
You have taken my statements taken out of context.
I did not state 80 posts represent the vast majority of the US or the world. Neither of us has those statistics. But you specifically claimed that my statement only represented my experience so my counterpoint was that the majority of posters were in agreement. Yet you continue to claim otherwise solely based only on your experience.
I am done with responding to you as I don't see how pontificating about the cowardice of posters is moving the discussion forward.
You have taken my statements taken out of context.
I did not state 80 posts represent the vast majority of the US or the world. Neither of us has those statistics. But you specifically claimed that my statement only represented my experience so my counterpoint was that the majority of posters were in agreement. Yet you continue to claim otherwise solely based only on your experience.
I am done with responding to you as I don't see how pontificating about the cowardice of posters is moving the discussion forward.
As have my comments. I never once have condoned or promoted the idea of straight up bad mouthing anyone or anything out of spite. Providing fair, reasonable, and tactful criticism (or praise) is not punishable by death of your career in the vast majority of cases either. Reporting someone for unethical behavior towards yourself, someone you know, or otherwise, is not a death sentence either in most cases. And even if it were at a specific organization, then good bleeping riddance! Who in their right mind and conscience would want to continue supporting such an organization?
Exactly, you may be retaliated against by a lowly, pathetic subhuman piece of trash if it is in their best interests to do so. But what's more likely is they will hold a grudge and if it is in their power to harm you at some point in the future they will be happy to do so. When I was on my first job out of college as an insurance adjustor/investigator I got fired by a bully boss. What I found out later was that because my job required me to be bonded, the bonding agency was notified I was fired for poor work performance. Since any good job in L.A. that I applied for required bonding I was essentially blackballed. I could never catch a break so I eventually moved to NYC and started over, sadder but wiser. In 35 years of working for corporations I've found that management is the same everywhere. There are the people that actually do the work. And there are the politicos that comprise the self serving senior management. To join that club you have to leave your conscience at home.
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Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot
Providing fair, reasonable, and tactful criticisms (and praise) of a workplace environment is not sour grapes. Anyone who would treat it as such, and go so far as to retaliate against you years after in your career, well after moving on, is a lowly, pathetic subhuman piece of trash.
Two times I have been honest about the reasons I left.
First time, I kept getting passed up for opportunities because I was female. HR offered a title change to get me to stay but I already had a better offer lined up and it was too little too late.
Second time, a manager left and they brought someone in before even allowing us to apply for the position and it irked me. I told them that was why I was leaving as I went to a new, better job. Six months later he resigned and they offered the job to me the same day and I took it.
Whether or not you should do it - it depends what your end goal is. Do you just want to get back at her? Do you want her job? Would you stay if she was gone? She got to where she is somehow, so obviously someone thinks she’s good at her job.
Most employers contact HR at a prospective employee’s prior company for the reference, not higher ranking managers overseas. So you have to weigh up whether you want to risk being labeled a difficult employee, vs going out with praise from everyone else but her on your side. If your new job is going to be a good fit and you’re happy about it, maybe just move on and let it go.
Exactly, you may be retaliated against by a lowly, pathetic subhuman piece of trash if it is in their best interests to do so. But what's more likely is they will hold a grudge and if it is in their power to harm you at some point in the future they will be happy to do so. When I was on my first job out of college as an insurance adjustor I got fired by a bully boss. What I found out later was that because my job required me to be bonded, the bonding agency was notified I was fired for poor work performance. Since any good job in L.A. that I applied for required bonding I was essentially blackballed. I could never catch a break so I eventually moved to NYC and started over, sadder but wiser.
So you got fired by a bully boss of no fault of your own doing (it sounds like to me), and he blackballed you by blocking you from getting bonded. It sounds like you literally could have done nothing different and it would have resulted in the same ending for you. You could have reported him to HR or to an official governing agency, and you would have had the same outcome. I don't see how this is the same. You worked for a monster, who, regardless of whether you took action against him or not, and got screwed over. So it sounds to me maybe you should have taken a stance against him, at least then you'd have had some dignity as opposed to doing nothing and getting whipped around for nothing anyway. If it wasn't for cause, you probably could have and should have had legal recourse available to you.
After I quit from my previous toxic work location, I was hearing through the grape vine that people were talking poorly about me to others I had worked with. These are people I hardly knew and had no working relationship with. Keep in mind, I was mostly quiet and positive while I was working there, and I never talked about anybody there in a negative light. But despite that, subhuman pieces of trash will keep on being subhuman pieces of trash and talk about you because they have literally nothing better to do. It did not matter what I did; I was one of the most innocuous, neutral and amicable people that worked there. They still talked trash about me.
At the end of the day, it meant nothing to me and had no negative bearing on my career. But you better believe if it did, I would have went after them with everything I had until they begged for mercy. My life and my ability to make a living is not something you mess with. You're messing with my money, and that doesn't end well for you. I'm sad that others don't feel as strongly about their own wellbeing. I'm sincerely curious what lesson you think you learned by being bullied for no apparent reason, and doing nothing about it other than running away across country with your tail tucked between your legs. Was it to not work for bullies anymore who will harm you regardless of what you did while you worked for them?
Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; 04-02-2019 at 03:08 PM..
I've been at my job for about 3 years now. I decided to resign on Thursday to move to another company, hopefully with a healthier environment.
Our department has a huge turnover with approximately 1 to 2 resignations per month. This has led to having some team leads end up with no reports at all. Consequently, there are more team leaders & manager than actual analysts.
About 7 months after I started my job, my current manager got appointed. She's around my age and clearly has some confidence issues with she transfers onto me. She's never liked me from the moment she saw me even she she was not yet a manager. I remember once going up to her to tell her someone had called and wanted to speak to her, she didn't even want to look at me and kept looking at her screen, no thank you nothing.
You can imagine my shock when she became a manager, my manager. On top of this, I don't have a team, I'm the only one covering my desk/market. From that point onwards, it was belittling after belittling moments. She would ignore our 1-1 and whenever we'd have one, she would focus on the following:
- I should change departments because I'm supposedly meant for bigger things.
Mind you, I'm a top performer. I've received countless positive feedbacks from senior management on various operations I conducted across different jurisdictions.
- She cannot promote me because I'm not a social butterfly. I need to socialize more otherwise my manager won't be able to approve my promotion. Yet, I was still getting positive reviews from senior management.
- When the head of our department overseas granted me the opportunity to work on their biggest clients, she decided to make me work on a completely different market on my own (which I never cover) which requires approximately 2 employees to cover properly. When I brought it up to the head of the department saying that my work on top of this project on top of me covering for a market I'm not even assigned to is not realistic, my direct manager said I'm lying and I don't have any work to do.
This is absolutely not true as the head of the department overseas has a direct visibility on my workload and thus knew I'd screw up my own market & this big project if I were to take on a different market in addition which I was never assigned to in the first place. My manager wanted to basically make me work on an additional market without the consent of the head of the department I work with and later on called me "unprofessional" for bringing the issue to the head's awareness.
- After the last teammate I was close with left, she decided to completely ignore me for weeks on end. She would talk to other people and not me even though we didn't have any argument or anything. She blatantly ignored me, so that I would feel isolated.
- When I submitted my resignation, her response was: "This is happening. Wow. Well, this company is not your place. You're meant for bigger things and you may want to come back at some stage, but I suggest you do not".
- She said that if she didn't walk past my desk, she wouldn't know I exist (it's a blatant lie, she gets feedback emails from senior management about me on a monthly basis because of how great I was doing my job and she said I don't exist?).
When I announced my departure to the higher management abroad (above her), several of them jump on the occasion to write me a recommendations/reference etc ... All of them said I did a fantastic job and are really shocked I'm leaving. However, since I don't report to them, they can't offer anything especially as the company is going under restructuring. These are the people who wrote countless of emails to my direct manager to praise my work and she never bat an eyelash.
One time, I received a kuddos from the EMEA head and she ignored the email for an entire week. Everyone had responded by saying they agreed with him on the fact that I did an amazing job, except her. She responded a week later pretending she hadn't seen it when it's a lie. She reads all of her emails, especially from the EMEA head. She always responds to emails in 2 minutes and of course, when it was time to praise me, she ignored.
Anyway, you get the point. I feel like throwing her under the bus on my way out as there's no way I'm ever coming back to a department that has gone down the drain.
Do you reckon I should advise HR of her ways in a diplomatic manner? Or should I address those with her?
Yes give HR two or three senses about this lady. If they are smart they should know of her issues before you speak but if not spend less than a minute on your comments
Best wishes on the new job. Remember do not let them pull you down to their petty level so three sentences tops on this topic at exit
Anyone who's planning on saying anything in an exit interview needs to ask themselves a question: Do you really, honestly believe that input will be accepted as constructive criticism and result in positive action? If yes, why are you just talking about it now?
Most of the time, stuff like this is a gleeful bash on the way out the door. It feels good, but it burns bridges. If you're certain that you want to leave ashes behind you, go ahead... but the fact is, it means you let them get into your head, which is why you care so much and why they don't and will continue to do as they've always done. Meanwhile, having taken those cheap parting shots just diminishes you.
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