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Old 04-03-2019, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,124 posts, read 23,000,049 times
Reputation: 35318

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
There were Dilbert cartoons about getting work product from applicants some 20 years ago.

When my father applied for a welding job at Coors long ago, they had him take an all-day welding test. But, he said, they paid you for the day if you passed the test, regardless of whether you were hired.

I can see why employers have applicants take tests. I've had applicants tell me they were perfect for a job requiring college-level English skills when they couldn't spell three-letter words. But having someone spend hours on a test (without paying them for their work) is a bit much.
OMG, first let me say that I volunteer as a ESL conversation coach and love my immigrant students from all over the world.

That said, I had a government worker I had to deal with last year who I couldn;t understand to save my life. I respectfully kept telling her I was so sorry, but I can't understand you, can you speak more slowly, over and over.

At one point she got really angry with me and yelled, "Yes you can understand me! I'm certified in English!"

Need I say more? LOL.

Lots of unanswered questions there, though, like, who certified you?
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Bloomington IN
6,543 posts, read 7,815,429 times
Reputation: 16012
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrodome2 View Post
This has been going on in the consulting business for years. 2
Agree. Often in the consulting/contracting world companies ask for RFPs. They have no/little intent to actually hire anyone for a project. They are often looking for "free" ideas about a project. I rarely become involved in RFPs for this reason. There was one I spent hours on years ago. Because I know people that worked for the company, I know that many of the ideas I included in the RFP were used when they finally did the project in-house.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,358 posts, read 15,801,153 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Take the test, do the work, and move on to the next company that you are applying to.
If they offer you a job, great.
If not, you're out one day of your time. Big deal.
If they "steal" your work, them's the breaks!

There's a clear line between a simulated test and doing actual work that is of value to the company. You, the applicant, should be smart enough to tell the difference, and if it appears they're exploiting you for free labor, you can either take a chance and do the work, or simply walk away.

Years ago, I read in the WSJ (I think) about a marketing manager who was asked to take 2-3 days and work up a full marketing plan for a company's product campaign and hand it in as part of her hiring evaluation. She obediently did so, and never heard from them again.

Use your discretion here. If you were running a bakery franchise and asked an applicant to demonstrate their abilities to bake and decorate a cake, and they said "I won't do that for free," then would you really want that person on your staff? Not the "go the extra mile" type, more like the "pay me more for less work" type. Obviously, from their standpoint you were getting them to do free work, but if you explain up front that it's a standard test, they can either accept it or move on.
The problem with that is it is a catch-22 from what you posted. Do the work don't get the job or say no and do not. The worst part I see is you not getting paid for direct labour being used for the company. That is theft especially if it is used. The social media posts are easy to find and claim the rights of but the others?
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,814 posts, read 13,305,626 times
Reputation: 15985
As I said it is at best wage theft, at worst theft by deception. Basically these managers are criminals.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:19 AM
 
3,764 posts, read 3,506,679 times
Reputation: 8938
Quote:
Originally Posted by c charlie View Post
At 18, I badly needed a job I accepted. Employer told me on the first day that he didn't pay over time, that he paid annual bonuses, I said I understand, and. YOU need to understand that I get paid for any over time. He didn't sack me. I did no overtime. He also tried the 'come in half an hour early, finish half an hour later" nonsense. I simply refused.
I stayed there only until I could find a better job---joined the Civil Service..
Sounds like the perfect career choice for someone like you.

I worked long hours in my first couple of salaried jobs. No one required me to, but it was the key to success and it really paid off later on. Even today, I will sometimes work nights and weekends, not because anyone asks me to, but in order to advance my skills and stay relevant in a fast changing field where people half my age might be gunning for my job. And because I enjoy it. Each to his own, I suppose.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:59 AM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,586 posts, read 3,670,991 times
Reputation: 19694
Contact your state workforce commission to see if what they are asking for is even legal.

My spouse had a problem with an employer who started wanting him to work for free. He made a claim for thousands of dollars in lost wages and won. By contacting his state workforce commission, there was a hearing and they decided in his favor. The state went after the employer and eventually husband got a check for his lost wages.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,358 posts, read 15,801,153 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Contact your state workforce commission to see if what they are asking for is even legal.

My spouse had a problem with an employer who started wanting him to work for free. He made a claim for thousands of dollars in lost wages and won. By contacting his state workforce commission, there was a hearing and they decided in his favor. The state went after the employer and eventually husband got a check for his lost wages.
Good suggestion in general but I wonder if this would work in the course of interviewing. The company could easily say that "Well we weren't actually using the work" and it then becomes a case of your word versus their's. Unless you have clear evidence that your work was used prior to you getting on boarded IE the tweets, it is hard to know who is right.
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:16 PM
Status: "This space for rent." (set 10 hours ago)
 
Location: Columbia, SC
7,335 posts, read 4,459,231 times
Reputation: 8858
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
Can I get a paycheck first, to test if the company checks bounce or not during the interview?
You can ask.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:20 AM
 
3,624 posts, read 1,563,586 times
Reputation: 2531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryview22 View Post
According to this article, "Interviewers are increasingly making absurd demands on applicants’ time..."


As time goes on, hiring practices are only going to get worse. It's hard to imagine what the future in 'human procurement' (talent "acquisition, they call their trade) will look like.


Even now, the combination of these things has made things much more difficult than it was 20 years ago:

* Technology - ATSs and online application processes that enforce responses
* Job boards that give employers increasingly powerful tools to weed the crop of candidates
* Irrational, unjust, entrenched primitive biases that have become best practices
* Virtual networking and sharing intelligence on applicants between recruiters
* Increasing use of personality tests that alienate intelligent, insightful candidates.
(There is an example of one large employer in my city forcing applicants to take their test within the online application under the guise of assessing candidate's values to theirs, but the test is really a risk assessment tool to identify applicants who are more likely to file discrimination complaints)
* Miscellaneous other onerous processes


...But I haven't heard about an emerging practice of giving candidates actual work to do as part of the selection process. So some of them must be getting burned by their presumptions of competence for certain applicants, presumptions of incompetence for "diverse" candidates, over-confidence in interviewing, hiring by referrals, gut checks for "cultural fit", etc. So now this lunacy:

https://slate.com/human-interest/201...ree-labor.html


This makes me think wonder what recruiters will being doing 5 - 10 years from now that would shock us today. I wonder...
I did unpaid internships to learn and program in Java and treated it as an on the job experience.

I would support the initiative. It would save a lot of time and cost for employers and employees. If I am not confidetn enough i wont apply at all which may weed out bad employess even before applying.
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