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Old 04-29-2019, 11:35 PM
 
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,189 posts, read 2,945,277 times
Reputation: 2037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Silicon Valley is ridiculously expensive. By the time they take their $100K job, pay rent and ridiculous cost of living, they're having pennies in their bank account. And there's massive age discrimination there, one's career is over at age 35, unless they become a founder.

Yeah you retire at 35 with a huge net worth. I know a guy who retired from Google at 30 with over five million dollars in the bank. He was a programmer.



Quote:

An ensign making $38K a year gets free housing, free healthcare, free food - they're banking almost all of their paycheck. If they work hard, they get promotions and better roles. After 20 years they get a nice pension. Silicon Valley doesn't do pensions. Silicon Valley can't compete with this.

Are you kidding? We don't need pensions in Silicon Valley. What do you think is the net worth of a guy who programmed at Google for 20 years? He doesn't need a pension, dude.


Quote:
So they're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better off even though their salary is lower.

No, there's no way they're better off. Housing is expensive here, yes. But that just means you get a smaller place, something that fits in 30% of your income. Do that and you're still making far more than you would in the military. These men joined out of patriotism. these are not the "no future, no good options" stereotype. These men would make a LOT of money in Silicon Valley and have a very good life. But they chose to serve their country.


It's the same thing I did. I interviewed with a famous IT service provider a few years ago and they said with my skills, I could make a lot of money in IT, if that's what I wanted to do. And when I was in college, with my father paying for it (he made a lot of money here in Silicon Valley, enough to own a four bedroom house with a big yard), I was going for Computer Science. But I didn't want to monetize my hobby...and I joined the Navy out of patriotism, just the like officers on submarines did.


Make no mistake, we're the majority of the modern military. It now requires a high school diploma and a clean criminal record (for the most part). If you have that, you could make more in trades than you would as a junior member of the military. Gone are the days when most people in the military were people with few other choices in life. At least that's true of Navy submarines. Can't speak for other communities.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:38 PM
 
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,189 posts, read 2,945,277 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
So in counter to Neutrino's point about government work being patriotism, at some point you still have to put food on the table and a roof over your kid's heads.

So when you get to that point, you leave for the private sector, having served your country with honor.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:23 AM
 
2,465 posts, read 701,111 times
Reputation: 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
Yeah you retire at 35 with a huge net worth. I know a guy who retired from Google at 30 with over five million dollars in the bank. He was a programmer.
You do know that it is EXTREMELY RARE for such programmers to get that kind of money? Less than 1% of programmers get that kind of money.

You're talking lottery level odds. This is NOT the norm.





Quote:
Are you kidding? We don't need pensions in Silicon Valley. What do you think is the net worth of a guy who programmed at Google for 20 years? He doesn't need a pension, dude.
75% of jobs in Silicon Valley are taken by h1b/L1/OPT visa holders and those who transitioned from those visas. In addition, if you're over age 35, they won't talk to you regardless of how awesome you are. Add to the geographic discrimination (i.e. they believe there is no tech talent in the USA that's out of state) and what you're talking about is basically lottery winning odds.


Quote:
No, there's no way they're better off. Housing is expensive here, yes. But that just means you get a smaller place, something that fits in 30% of your income.
Excuse me? Living in a garage or car to make ends meet
versus
Actually having the government pay in full for your place to live, and you have either on base housing (your own room as an O1) or our own apartment.

Keep hyping the wrong thing. You're just flat out wrong.


Quote:
These men would make a LOT of money in Silicon Valley and have a very good life.
Silicon Valley would not want them. Regardless of their skillset.
if they're pro-military, Silicon valley rejects them due to it being an echo chamber of left wing politics who hate the military. If they're US Citizens, they don't stand a chance. .


Silicon Valley is insular and out of touch, and discriminates heavily against those in the USA.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:28 AM
 
2,465 posts, read 701,111 times
Reputation: 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
It would blow my mind when I would read that someone left a company (one known for generous benefits to employees reaching "full retirement" or 30 years) just shy of a milestone that would have set them for life.
Most likely they were forced out against their will. The company didn't want to pay those generous benefits.

So they assign that 29-year experienced employee to a project and deprive it of resources - set them up to fail. They see this coming a mile away, and they knew they're going to be fired - and jump ship.

Age discrimination happens even after people get a job.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:29 AM
 
2,465 posts, read 701,111 times
Reputation: 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
Most people who flock to silicon valley don't go there for the $100k administrative jobs. They go there for the $300k tech jobs...
And they don't get those 300K tech jobs straight off the bat.

Especially when 75% of the jobs there are for visa holders and those who transitioned from those visas. US Citizens need not apply.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:31 AM
 
2,465 posts, read 701,111 times
Reputation: 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
Even better than pensions, they get a 401k with match (which in itself is amazing) AND stocks... often valued at 50% to 100% of their salary.
Tons of employers have 401K with match, Big freaking deal.

Stock only is offered to the tiny percentage of techies who have unique skills, they're like the 1% of developers. Your typical dev won't get this.

Of course, not for US Citizens - only for those who have work visas and those who transitioned from those work visas for 75% of tech jobs.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:41 AM
 
2,465 posts, read 701,111 times
Reputation: 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
You should learn how to use a spreadsheet and put in real numbers before forming a conclusion because you aren't comparing real numbers here. Because you are way off entirely.
You're making assumptions that do not fit reality.

Quote:
Someone making over $200K+ a year
Entry level salaries are nowhere near 200K a year. Most are not even half that. And they're competing against H1bs/L1/OPT visa holders who are even lower in salary ranges.

Quote:
has a matching (6-10% of gross pay) 401(k)
So do non-Silicon Valley employers

Quote:
stock grants which is also free money for starters.
Stock grants are not usually given to starters (entry level people).


Quote:
No way is someone making $38K a year even if they had zero expenses and taking it to the extremely paid no tax on any of it is better off than someone earning a high paying job in Silicon Valley.
Because they can GET the job in the military and become successful there.

75% of jobs in Silicon Valley are given to visa holders and those who transition from them. US Citizens need not apply.

Quote:
Having a free place to live also doesn't get the mortgage interest tax deduction or building equity in real estate.
Unless their deductions are $10K or more the deductions mean nothing.

Quote:
As for that pension, that isn't an open ended magic Black Amex card, it has a real number and it can't complete with the portfolio of someone having worked in Silicon Valley in a hiring paying job over all those years. People hear the word pension and think it is some sort of magic thing.
You're assuming people can keep job "all those years"

Age discrimination is rampant in Silicon Valley. At age 35 game over. Their career is dead.

Unless they're the 1% of developers, the 99% of techies are nowhere near where you are talking about.

Stop hyping Silicon Valley. It is an out of touch place. And it is a lottery, not a meritocracy.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:44 AM
 
2,465 posts, read 701,111 times
Reputation: 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Many private companies see people with graduate degrees.
And reject them for being overqualified.

Quote:
Just because you have a Master's degree doesn't mean you can only teach.
That's what private sector employers think. "You got a PhD? You should be a professor instead of applying here."

With the exception of quants (PhD in math) - PhD's in anything locks people out of industry.
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:55 AM
 
2,242 posts, read 558,370 times
Reputation: 3940
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
You do know that it is EXTREMELY RARE for such programmers to get that kind of money?
Not really.

While my daughter was in high school, one of her classmates worked at Google part time after school. He was pretty good, so Google made him an offer to become a full-time employee upon HS graduation at about $120K/year. Not a bad offer for a 17 year old. Still, that meant not going to college, so Google sweetened the deal with a boatload of stock options and RSUs... and this was 10 years ago when GOOG was about $175/share. It closed yesterday at about $1280. That kid, who went to work at Google rather than go to college has a net worth in the $10 million range. He's 28 year old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
75% of jobs in Silicon Valley are taken by h1b/L1/OPT visa holders and those who transitioned from those visas.
LOL! That's just silly. My daughter's childhood best friend since Kindergarten is now a headhunter in Silicon Valley, and she reports just the opposite. (Oh - she makes $250K/year as a headhunter. She's 28.)
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:59 AM
 
2,242 posts, read 558,370 times
Reputation: 3940
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Most likely they were forced out against their will. The company didn't want to pay those generous benefits.
Fiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
So they assign that 29-year experienced employee to a project and deprive it of resources - set them up to fail.
More fiction

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Especially when 75% of the jobs there are for visa holders and those who transitioned from those visas. US Citizens need not apply.
More fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Stock only is offered to the tiny percentage of techies who have unique skills, they're like the 1% of developers. Your typical dev won't get this.
Yet more fiction. Everyone gets stock options & RSUs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Of course, not for US Citizens - only for those who have work visas and those who transitioned from those work visas for 75% of tech jobs.
More Fiction.
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