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Old 04-05-2019, 11:11 AM
 
116 posts, read 35,010 times
Reputation: 206

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Companies become bloated and inefficient when a large number of product managers, program managers, etc. get added to the mix.

I would go as far as saying that UX designers aren't that necesarry, because software developers do a perfectly good job of designing the optimal user experience for their code.

Lean companies like Twitter are almost entirely comprised of software devs. They run everything including the finances/accounting.

The best example is the online dating site OkCupid, run by a dozen software devs.

I can't believe the numbers of times in my life as a dev I have been asked to implement something completely useless, e.g. some expensive new service for "telemetry" so that some beuracrat and crunch meaningless numbers to put in a PowerPoint presentation.

The show Silicon Valley has a great episode where they get a new CEO who hires a fleet of Sales and Marketing people who cancel all the useless engineering projects and run the company into the ground.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,589 posts, read 3,019,935 times
Reputation: 12819
Dear Ghu, no.

Read up on the 1930s, when every worker bee thought their class should run things.

There is probably no worker class on Earth, at present, more certain of their pinnacle position and more wrong about that than software developers. Not even cardiologists.

Go back to your code, monkey.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:20 AM
 
611 posts, read 266,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallbuilder View Post
Lean companies like Twitter are almost entirely comprised of software devs. They run everything including the finances/accounting.
That would explain Twitter's performance on the stock market lol....

I haven't been following their financial reports for a while. Are they still having trouble getting new users and monetizating their traffic?

Last edited by Liar_Liar; 04-05-2019 at 11:39 AM..
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:41 AM
 
6,839 posts, read 3,713,227 times
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My experience says the exact opposite. Software developers are so in love with their code they are unwilling to make it useful to the actual end user. Seen lots of bad come from that.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,589 posts, read 3,019,935 times
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The idea that any and all management in a company is "bloat" and "bureaucracy" can only be promoted by a mindset forged in the tech world that thinks spending two years of 20-hour days developing something mostly-working and then being bought out is "business."

It's more like kids running a lemonade stand who have an uncle come by and pay $5.00 for a glass of the glop.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:32 PM
 
116 posts, read 35,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
My experience says the exact opposite. Software developers are so in love with their code they are unwilling to make it useful to the actual end user. Seen lots of bad come from that.
I doubt this is true if they are selling their software to the end user
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
22,291 posts, read 9,466,208 times
Reputation: 18194
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallbuilder View Post
Companies become bloated and inefficient when a large number of product managers, program managers, etc. get added to the mix.

I would go as far as saying that UX designers aren't that necesarry, because software developers do a perfectly good job of designing the optimal user experience for their code.

Lean companies like Twitter are almost entirely comprised of software devs. They run everything including the finances/accounting.

The best example is the online dating site OkCupid, run by a dozen software devs.

I can't believe the numbers of times in my life as a dev I have been asked to implement something completely useless, e.g. some expensive new service for "telemetry" so that some beuracrat and crunch meaningless numbers to put in a PowerPoint presentation.

The show Silicon Valley has a great episode where they get a new CEO who hires a fleet of Sales and Marketing people who cancel all the useless engineering projects and run the company into the ground.
What you describe is a universal issue in the work world--not exclusive to tech. At many companies and firms in all industries, they could ditch middle management and supervisors and be fine. The people who do the actual work know a lot more about efficiency than management and middle management, but they never ask those who do the work, so the middle management gravy train chugs on, and money and time is wasted because of it.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,589 posts, read 3,019,935 times
Reputation: 12819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
What you describe is a universal issue in the work world--not exclusive to tech. At many companies and firms in all industries, they could ditch middle management and supervisors and be fine. The people who do the actual work know a lot more about efficiency than management and middle management, but they never ask those who do the work, so the middle management gravy train chugs on, and money and time is wasted because of it.
Spoken like someone who's never managed a little league team, let alone a department.

You'll notice that not even tech firms past any minimal size are managed by the inmates. Not successful ones, anyway.

Pompous "functionalist" nonsense.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:47 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 550,083 times
Reputation: 3560
A software developer typically knows what's best for the specific piece (or pieces) of software they develop. They don't know what's best for a product line, or a program consisting of multiple changes at once, or what's best when there aren't enough resources to get everything done perfectly.

Many developers need people to translate between them and what users actually want and need. Devs often have very cool ideas, but struggle to make them realistic or cost effective. I've seen devs waste hundreds of hours coding something they find exciting, but that users, practically speaking don't want or need.

I somewhat recently saw a development team propose close to $500,000 of person-hours developing a custom piece of software. The design was cool, it was slick, it would have been very amazing to see. We also found an out of the box piece of software that accomplished the same goal for the end user that could be bought for around $60,000, everything included. Devs hated it because it wasn't as exciting to create, even though it was better for the company and the end user.
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Old 04-05-2019, 04:56 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 572,090 times
Reputation: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallbuilder View Post
Companies become bloated and inefficient when a large number of product managers, program managers, etc. get added to the mix.

I would go as far as saying that UX designers aren't that necesarry, because software developers do a perfectly good job of designing the optimal user experience for their code.

Lean companies like Twitter are almost entirely comprised of software devs. They run everything including the finances/accounting.

The best example is the online dating site OkCupid, run by a dozen software devs.

I can't believe the numbers of times in my life as a dev I have been asked to implement something completely useless, e.g. some expensive new service for "telemetry" so that some beuracrat and crunch meaningless numbers to put in a PowerPoint presentation.

The show Silicon Valley has a great episode where they get a new CEO who hires a fleet of Sales and Marketing people who cancel all the useless engineering projects and run the company into the ground.
Software developers don't always design the optimal user experience. You need UX researchers and designers. Take a look at Microsoft as an example.

Twitter has a UX team.

OKCupid has a huge UX team. In fact, they an entire team dedicated to design systems.

There's a reason why companies focused on UX (Apple, MS, Instagram, SnapChat, etc.) are successful. There's a reason why companies focused on data (NYT, Google, spotify, etc.) are successful.

It seems like you don't have much experience running a company or even a product.
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