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Old 04-12-2019, 04:45 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,828 posts, read 1,009,940 times
Reputation: 2847

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Some people don't have lives and feel like working is the best way to spend their time. At least they make a lot of money. I've been both paid low and had a 40 hour job and paid well with the extra hours they expect. I have to say the money is usually worth it, to some degree. Everyone has their balance.

I know lawyers and most go into "industry" at a corporate job usually the time they have families where the hours are less but the downsides are career progression are harder. A good lawyer can make 400k to 1 million the 2nd half of their career if they work those kinds of hours. But at what cost to their health and personal lives?
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:21 PM
 
Location: ATL -> HOU -> DAL
4,395 posts, read 3,561,952 times
Reputation: 3491
My last job was 12 hour shifts 4 days in a row then 4 days off. That itself wasn't bad, but OT could be quite frequent. Quite a few times I would do 6 of those shifts in a row (so 72 hours) and then just have 2 days off. Every once in a while, someone would do a full week of OT. So, that's 4 scheduled 12 hour shifts, 4 OT 12 hour shifts, then back to their normal 4 12 hour shifts. 144 work hours in 12 days with no break. Very few do it more than once. My personal worst was 5 12 hour shifts in a row, one day off, then 5 in a row again. Back to back 60 hour weeks but with just one day off.

To me, it's not worth it. I didn't even like the 4 on 4 off. With a little over 12 hours of work each day, you just can't do anything to really relax. Now I'm very happy with a constant 5 days a week, 8 hours of work, one hour lunch. Plenty of time to unwind and actually enjoy life. With 12 hour days, you just can't do anything during the work week.
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:08 PM
 
2,424 posts, read 693,558 times
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Uncompensated overtime = corporate welfare.

That's why I got a job where I do a solid 40 every week. No OT, no workaholics.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:11 PM
 
1,696 posts, read 554,655 times
Reputation: 3581
Most places wouldn't require hours like that today. It might require them to move to a senior level position, but not to keep a job at the company. If they do, you know it going into it, choose to work those hours and are paid well for it.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:04 PM
 
1,550 posts, read 403,004 times
Reputation: 2896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawg8181 View Post
That is not true. Many co's work their people long hours and are very successful. Also, people trypically know what they're getting into before they accept an offer.


My co has been around 20 years. We're not going anywhere. They told me the hours upfront. I was ok with it.


It depends on company. Work/life balance is of course important, but there are many people who work long hours and don't mind, and in fact, might quite like it.
Meanwhile, you drink the kool-aid, put in all these additional hours for nothing while the owners get rich. While they dangle a bonus which if you did the math falls short of paying time and a half for over time. Too often people believe the excuses of management for the reasons. It is their failing that people have to work over 40 hours a week unpaid on a continual basis. No amount of nonsense about being told this up front wearing it like a badge that this is what professionals do is going to paint it in a better picture. I'm a project manager and we plan projects. We don't plan or expect people working 60-70-80 hour a week and certainly not unpaid. We plan to get the work done so that no one is working overtime to begin with. If you plan projects this way, you have a very high chance of achieving it. But if the management is bad and starts off telling you how abusive they are without calling it abuse but sugar-coating it with phrases like "challenge you", it doesn't make it any better. Sadly people get caught up (drink the kool-aid) into what management tells them because they set the tone and before you know it, people are being abused by they don't even know it, and make excuses for it. "Well, there is work that needs to be done!".

As for those who have no life or trying to avoid it, who stay there 60/70/80 hours week, those types from my experience aren't efficient workers and are often late on deadlines. No, they aren't working so hard and spread so thin, they procrastinate and don't have the best productivity.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:11 PM
 
1,550 posts, read 403,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Yes, I worked for several IT companies as a software developer where heavy unpaid overtime work like you describe was required. If you didn't do it, you were fired. As salaried employees, there is not much that you can do but grin and bear it. Or leave the company. When management says you jump, you jump or you are shown the door, or jump out of that company if you don't want to deal with it.
It's funny you say that, because I don't believe anyone gets fired because they leave on time. I was in a large software group and while some people stayed more hours per day, those with experience left on-time and no one said anything to them. So I think this "you will be fired if you leave after only 8 hours" is just a feeling in the culture and not a fact. Some people feel it is expected of them while others set their hours and stick to them. But if you routinely hang around the office an hour or two extra each day, people are going to expect you to continue doing that.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:21 PM
 
Location: League City
3,380 posts, read 6,598,717 times
Reputation: 3986
I work in software, and at my last job, it was not required to work over 40 hours unless it was something dire. But... our lead was tired of the layoffs every few years, so he started working 80+ hours a week to make himself seem invaluable. That and people suspected he didn't want to be at home with his wife. I once heard our boss asking him "so you only worked 80 hours?" Anyway, I left that place for other reasons, and last I heard the company was bought out and he is no longer allowed to work those grueling hours.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:06 PM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,303,280 times
Reputation: 20438
When I was 25 years salaried I was on site 7 days a week... if only Sunday night to make sure everything was ready for a busy Monday Surgery schedule...

When the Hospital was bought out I went to hourly... said it was a big mistake and I hated punching in and out... simply detested it because I was still being called as if I was still management... you know... clocked out and leaving but the boss wants to see you...

It has been a couple of years and the Hospital informed me my position will become salaried again... I said not interested.

The last 80 hour pay period had 109 hours with some double time... I was asked to come in and tasked with specific after hour jobs to complete... it got me thinking about the value of being hourly...
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Old 04-13-2019, 01:13 AM
 
1,430 posts, read 818,066 times
Reputation: 2182
I only get 1 existence. I'm not gonna waste MORE than 30% making somebody else rich.

There are 168 hours in a week. Assuming 40 at work, 1 to 1 1/2 hour commute each way x 5 days, that's 50 to 55 hours each week, mathematically 29.7% of your time.

Well, when I was in the Army I was doing 12 hour days, 6 days a week but, we lived a 5 minute walk from work and, barracks were free. It is a lot more tolerable when you can reliably save literally 85-90% of your paycheck each month.

As it stands now, I work 29.7% of my existence to pay 53.1% of my NET income to RENT. I need to win a cash jackpot...

...granted, a lot of people don't have a choice...
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:52 AM
 
1,863 posts, read 717,802 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
It's funny you say that, because I don't believe anyone gets fired because they leave on time. I was in a large software group and while some people stayed more hours per day, those with experience left on-time and no one said anything to them. So I think this "you will be fired if you leave after only 8 hours" is just a feeling in the culture and not a fact. Some people feel it is expected of them while others set their hours and stick to them. But if you routinely hang around the office an hour or two extra each day, people are going to expect you to continue doing that.
Unfortunately it was a fact where I worked. Certainly in other companies it may be different. And the more experienced and respected employees were the ones that put in the most hours. Overtime hours were king and that was the main standard used to determine how "good" an employee was. The more, the better. And yes, the more hours you put in the more they would expect. The companies were built on overtime hours. Overtime wasn't everything, it was the only thing. Upper management was constantly fixated on that to the exclusion of everything else.
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