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Old 04-19-2019, 06:07 PM
 
23 posts, read 10,278 times
Reputation: 37

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Quote:
Originally Posted by move4ward View Post
Have you thought of checking the corporate policy to verify what your manager says is corporate policy? You seem to not care enough about your job to read the corporate policy. That's one of the simplest things you can do on your own.
I went over the handbook yesterday and it says that they may force any disciplinary action using verbally or written warnings, suspension with or without pay, or termination at any time depending on what the company sees as appropriate. So basically, they can screw me whatever way they like. Either way, even if I survive PIP..I still would have to face my supervisor everyday who put me on it.

Last edited by Lifeisabeach21; 04-19-2019 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:35 PM
 
1,546 posts, read 400,415 times
Reputation: 2891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeisabeach21 View Post
I went over the handbook yesterday and it says that they may force any disciplinary action using verbally or written warnings, suspension with or without pay, or termination at any time depending on what the company sees as appropriate. So basically, they can screw me whatever way they like. Either way, even if I survive PIP..I still would have to face my supervisor everyday who put me on it.
It doesn't matter if the company handbook said nothing about it at all. You are one person, and you aren't going to save a job by finding something in the company handbook they over looked to fix this.

A business can fire someone for any reason or no reason. That is the bottom line.

At least with the PIP you have some time to find another job. I know that isn't what you want to hear, but this is better than being fired that day and walked out of the office.

For now you are still employed, and any other prospective company only knows that. I'd focus 100% on that and not worry about this current job. Take off time for an interviews if you need to, call in sick, use vacation days, ask for personal time, whatever, just do it. They don't care, they want you to leave so they aren't going to give you a hard time about taking time off, cause there is no way you can find another job without spending time away from this one.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:41 PM
 
1,546 posts, read 400,415 times
Reputation: 2891
Quote:
Originally Posted by move4ward View Post
Have you thought of checking the corporate policy to verify what your manager says is corporate policy? You seem to not care enough about your job to read the corporate policy. That's one of the simplest things you can do on your own.
You don't get it. It doesn't matter what is written about policies anywhere. Management decided they want the OP gone, which is the point of the PIP. The OP doesn't have time to waste fighting with them, cause it won't save the job. You really think the OP is going to go into an office and show in the company handbook pointing out that they were in error and that's going to fix the whole thing? You are confused, this isn't a board game where you take out the rules to inform the players they aren't doing it right and this works in your favor.

They can fire you for any reason or no reason. They don't need to do a PIP. They only do a PIP because they want the OP to leave on their own because it saves them money and lowers the risk of a lawsuit. The PIP is in the best interests of the employer, not the employee.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:46 PM
 
1,546 posts, read 400,415 times
Reputation: 2891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Game over. You got about 30 days and 60 days if you are lucky depending on how long it takes the new guy to get up to speed. If you can't find a new job don't quit, make sure to document so you can get terminated and get UE. What state are you in? Best had start brushing up on the UE forum now so you know what you need to do to prepare to contest if necessary.
A PIP doesn't have a hard end date. It could be 6 months, and they can fire you at any time if they wish. You can't count on the amount of days left to meet the goal to be true. A neighbor told me on his last job he was on a PIP, and he had several months to meet the goal. He met all the goals, and one week after the end of the PIP, he thought he was safe and that's when they fired him saying it was the manner in which he got the work done they didn't like. He asked for examples and they said they had none. Why did they do this? Because he was expensive to keep there, and they replaced him with someone about 20 years younger making about 2/3s of what he was being paid. He knows this because he still has friends that worked there and told him the situation. Shortly after this the company was then sold. So it was obvious they were doing this to reduce their costs, but large companies move so slowly he wasn't able to find another job in time.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:55 PM
 
281 posts, read 123,940 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnojr View Post
Really? It's completely impossible that s/he isn't that good at their job and has performance/attitude issues? No chance at all?



And sailing through life with the serene confidence that you're right and everyone else is wrong leads to narcissism and an inability to accept constructive criticism for improvement.
My advice is based on the information the OP shares here. It is attitude like yours drives people to self blame and despair. I really hope you’ll encounter the hostility that the op endures then come back and post.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,560 posts, read 17,544,804 times
Reputation: 27618
I feel for you OP. I was placed on a PIP at my last job. Here's what I would do.

If you're placed on a PIP for some hard metric that you can correct like tardiness, that's something you can correct and probably survive if you improve. However, for salaried jobs, they often have "softer" metrics, and it's going to be extremely difficult to find any meaningful turnaround within thirty days.

The fact that the managers are doing employee reviews without even consulting the employee is extremely troubling. The employee should be brought in and the reasoning behind the findings explained. If there is performance counseling, that should also be explained.

With the temp having a personal connection to the boss, it looks like your job will be ended at the end of the PIP, if not before.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:08 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
1,318 posts, read 1,182,566 times
Reputation: 2079
PIPs (performance improvement plan) can be useful and can be survived successfully. In some cases they are legitimate tools, used to correct a performance issue. All of the PIPs I am aware of had clear deadlines.

I seen and have given PIPs for performance issues like attendance, tardiness, and clear, docuented failings in work performance. These were legitimate PIPs, clearly documented and addressed performance issues that needed to be corrected.

I was given a PIP (after an outstanding review from my Manager) at a previous company and survived, receiving the top raise in the department the following year.

However, I have also seen PIPs that seemed to have been used incorrectly, in highly biased and unprofessional ways that reinforce a lot of the opinions expressed by others in this thread. These seem to be practically begging for lawsuits, although I admit I have not heard of any lawsuits concerning PIPs being successful.

A PIP should be based on fair, clear metrics that are detailed in a performance review. Again, my review the year I received the PIP was outstanding with no issues. My PIP came from a level above my Manager and had no details about what aspects of my performance was considered failing. The actions to address my PIP were all things I had already been doing.

I had two HR Managers with my company with access to all my records agree that my PIP did not make sense, but they said that sometimes you can not fight corporate directives. I did not like being told that but thanked them for their honesty (and looked for employment elsewhere).

Also, I knew several other people in my former company given PIPs. A senior Manager, who was given a PIP, was the smartest. He was fairly high up in the company and within a few years of retirement. He refused the PIP was successfully negotiated a decent severance package.

Two others given PIPs ended up with the person either getting terminated or quitting.

I hope this information helps.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,560 posts, read 17,544,804 times
Reputation: 27618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTarge13 View Post
PIPs (performance improvement plan) can be useful and can be survived successfully. In some cases they are legitimate tools, used to correct a performance issue. All of the PIPs I am aware of had clear deadlines.

I seen and have given PIPs for performance issues like attendance, tardiness, and clear, docuented failings in work performance. These were legitimate PIPs, clearly documented and addressed performance issues that needed to be corrected.

I was given a PIP (after an outstanding review from my Manager) at a previous company and survived, receiving the top raise in the department the following year.

However, I have also seen PIPs that seemed to have been used incorrectly, in highly biased and unprofessional ways that reinforce a lot of the opinions expressed by others in this thread. These seem to be practically begging for lawsuits, although I admit I have not heard of any lawsuits concerning PIPs being successful.

A PIP should be based on fair, clear metrics that are detailed in a performance review. Again, my review the year I received the PIP was outstanding with no issues. My PIP came from a level above my Manager and had no details about what aspects of my performance was considered failing. The actions to address my PIP were all things I had already been doing.

I had two HR Managers with my company with access to all my records agree that my PIP did not make sense, but they said that sometimes you can not fight corporate directives. I did not like being told that but thanked them for their honesty (and looked for employment elsewhere).

Also, I knew several other people in my former company given PIPs. A senior Manager, who was given a PIP, was the smartest. He was fairly high up in the company and within a few years of retirement. He refused the PIP was successfully negotiated a decent severance package.

Two others given PIPs ended up with the person either getting terminated or quitting.

I hope this information helps.
The fact that this guy knows the new contractor has a personal relationship with the boss is discouraging. The OP is likely to be fired and the boss' personal friend brought in.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:08 AM
 
30,070 posts, read 47,312,423 times
Reputation: 16014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The fact that this guy knows the new contractor has a personal relationship with the boss is discouraging. The OP is likely to be fired and the boss' personal friend brought in.
Yes—that was my immediate impression—
The long personal conversations at work are unprofessional and a sign this manager has issues him/herself...

I hope the OP has possibility of finding a better spot ASAP
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:46 AM
 
23 posts, read 10,278 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
It doesn't matter if the company handbook said nothing about it at all. You are one person, and you aren't going to save a job by finding something in the company handbook they over looked to fix this.

A business can fire someone for any reason or no reason. That is the bottom line.

At least with the PIP you have some time to find another job. I know that isn't what you want to hear, but this is better than being fired that day and walked out of the office.

For now you are still employed, and any other prospective company only knows that. I'd focus 100% on that and not worry about this current job. Take off time for an interviews if you need to, call in sick, use vacation days, ask for personal time, whatever, just do it. They don't care, they want you to leave so they aren't going to give you a hard time about taking time off, cause there is no way you can find another job without spending time away from this one.
What I was getting at is that they could’ve handled it differently than giving me a PIP initially. I can’t look at my supervisor the same.

Last edited by Lifeisabeach21; 04-20-2019 at 07:59 AM..
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