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Old 04-20-2019, 08:31 AM
 
6,839 posts, read 3,713,227 times
Reputation: 18078

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnojr View Post
...
There's absolutely no chance that a PIP is a way to get an employee to improve their performance to avoid firing them. None. The goal of employers is to fire employees, as quickly and in as great quantities as possible. The best, hardest-working, most loyal ones go first; and the toadies and bootlickers and least-competent ones are retained to cause as much discontent as possible for as long as possible to increase the stress on the few remaining decent people.
From a supervisor's perspective: A PIP is neither a tool for employee performance issues, nor is it a tool to fire someone; rather it's an HR invention to protect HR by inventing a paper trail.

Performance. If an employee is having performance issues, then I'm going to discuss and document those issues directly with the employee. What happens this depends on the source of the problem. If it's training, I get the employee trained. If it's lack of ability, we work on that. Only if the employee can not or will not do the job do we start down the termination path. Termination isn't a tool for routine issues; it's a last resort.

The PIP only comes up once I start the termination process. HR doesn't want to terminate employees; it's too much work. The PIP says what an employee must do to not be terminated. If the employee does those things, HR doesn't terminate. I've had employees cycle on PIP, off PIP, multiple times before HR would acknowledge the employee could not be helped.

PIP is step toward the last resort. I'd much rather get an employee turned around without one. Much better for everyone that way.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:43 AM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,462 posts, read 3,639,813 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTarge13 View Post
PIPs (performance improvement plan) can be useful and can be survived successfully. In some cases they are legitimate tools, used to correct a performance issue. All of the PIPs I am aware of had clear deadlines.
.
No, they are rarely survived and they are not actually for the purpose of improving work performance. They are a legal documentation for the sole purpose of firing someone.

For anyone here on a PIP, start looking for another job right away.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:44 AM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,462 posts, read 3,639,813 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
From a supervisor's perspective: A PIP is neither a tool for employee performance issues, nor is it a tool to fire someone; rather it's an HR invention to protect HR by inventing a paper trail.
.
It's a tool to fire someone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan.../#33cc50733b36

An employment law specialist has this to say about PIPs (yes, they are used to fire someone):

https://skloverworkingwisdom.com/why...re-them-after/
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:05 AM
 
23 posts, read 10,278 times
Reputation: 37
Now I’m debating whether or not to resign and give 2 weeks notice or not in order to put my job search on overdrive. I haven’t signed anything yet regarding the PIP. I’m assuming they will give me something on Monday. I know if I resign, then I’m not qualified for unemployment. However, NC’s unemployment benefit pay is low and I have some money saved up to cover expenses for 3 months.
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Location: In a vehicle.
5,021 posts, read 3,211,192 times
Reputation: 8208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeisabeach21 View Post
Now Iím debating whether or not to resign and give 2 weeks notice or not in order to put my job search on overdrive. I havenít signed anything yet regarding the PIP. Iím assuming they will give me something on Monday. I know if I resign, then Iím not qualified for unemployment. However, NCís unemployment benefit pay is low and I have some money saved up to cover expenses for 3 months.
Just keep working and showing up. MAKE them terminate you. Go for interviews and do not quit. The reason is simple. Until you do have that next job, it's best to not touch the cushion unless you absolutely have to.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:14 PM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,462 posts, read 3,639,813 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeisabeach21 View Post
Now Iím debating whether or not to resign and give 2 weeks notice or not in order to put my job search on overdrive. I havenít signed anything yet regarding the PIP. Iím assuming they will give me something on Monday. I know if I resign, then Iím not qualified for unemployment. However, NCís unemployment benefit pay is low and I have some money saved up to cover expenses for 3 months.
I wouldn't resign, I'd let them fire you but don't sign anything they give you that says you were not a good worker. Because that can be used against you if you tried to file for UI benefits.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:16 PM
 
1,092 posts, read 1,272,916 times
Reputation: 737
um easier to find a job while you currently have one catch-22.....and any income is better than $0 income.

Above means, you just work till you get fired/ laid off/ find another job. If you work standard 40hrs plenty of time to job search no excuse.

If HM wanted to fire you now, you'd be fired. They out you on a PIP because as of right now, you are more valuable to them.

Typically, the reason PIPs have a bad wrap is because the employee, reacts negatively towards it 9/10 which in turn yields negative results 9/10. If your PIP clearly defines areas of improvement I wouldn't necessarily give up. If your PIP is vague sucks to be you, but I still wouldn't give up. Keep HR and Hiring Manager in the loop about your progress and play the game.

Unfortunately, even after you survive the PIP, still need to job hunt because just being put on a PIP is a stain on your record that lasts for years. Kiss that future promotion goodbye, no raise, no bonus nothing. Moreover, after successfully completing a PIP, employees truly are at-will no more HR no more bureaucracy. If you violate a policy, like lets say you show up to work late 5m. Your boss has the authority and can immediately fire you on the spot without any HR involvement. Many PIPs have a clause like that somewhere in that paperwork meaning you have to be the perfect model employee 24/7.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:19 PM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,462 posts, read 3,639,813 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilksFavoriteCookie View Post
u
If HM wanted to fire you now, you'd be fired. They out you on a PIP because as of right now, you are more valuable to them.

Typically, the reason PIPs have a bad wrap is because the employee, reacts negatively towards it 9/10 which in turn yields negative results 9/10. If your PIP clearly defines areas of improvement I wouldn't necessarily give up. If your PIP is vague sucks to be you, but I still wouldn't give up. Keep HR and Hiring Manager in the loop about your progress and play the game..
Completely and totally false.

PIPs are used to fire people and document the reasons why.

The OP needs to start looking for another job.

PERIOD.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
15,024 posts, read 21,728,201 times
Reputation: 22196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeisabeach21 View Post
Now Iím debating whether or not to resign and give 2 weeks notice or not in order to put my job search on overdrive. I havenít signed anything yet regarding the PIP. Iím assuming they will give me something on Monday. I know if I resign, then Iím not qualified for unemployment. However, NCís unemployment benefit pay is low and I have some money saved up to cover expenses for 3 months.
I know itís stressful, Iíve been there. Keep working until you find another job.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,560 posts, read 17,544,804 times
Reputation: 27618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilksFavoriteCookie View Post
um easier to find a job while you currently have one catch-22.....and any income is better than $0 income.

Above means, you just work till you get fired/ laid off/ find another job. If you work standard 40hrs plenty of time to job search no excuse.

If HM wanted to fire you now, you'd be fired. They out you on a PIP because as of right now, you are more valuable to them.

Typically, the reason PIPs have a bad wrap is because the employee, reacts negatively towards it 9/10 which in turn yields negative results 9/10. If your PIP clearly defines areas of improvement I wouldn't necessarily give up. If your PIP is vague sucks to be you, but I still wouldn't give up. Keep HR and Hiring Manager in the loop about your progress and play the game.

Unfortunately, even after you survive the PIP, still need to job hunt because just being put on a PIP is a stain on your record that lasts for years. Kiss that future promotion goodbye, no raise, no bonus nothing. Moreover, after successfully completing a PIP, employees truly are at-will no more HR no more bureaucracy. If you violate a policy, like lets say you show up to work late 5m. Your boss has the authority and can immediately fire you on the spot without any HR involvement. Many PIPs have a clause like that somewhere in that paperwork meaning you have to be the perfect model employee 24/7.
The PIP is basically advance notice instead of being fired immediately. That, and with the friendly relationship with the manager, he needs to be looking.
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