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Old 04-23-2019, 09:38 PM
 
1,550 posts, read 404,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
If I were you, I'd be cutting expenses to the absolute bone in the interim. Build up as large of a war chest as possible. You could also potentially turn in a two-week notice at the start of the last week of the PIP. That could buy you another week's pay.
Do NOT turn in any notices to leave until you have secured another job. If the OP resigns that is leaving money on the table by not getting unemployment benefits and possibly missing out on a severance package.

The PIPs end date don't mean anything. They can fire before the end of the PIP or after it. I know it is no fun to be fired, but it is financially better to wait for it. Also, while the OP looks for another job, it is better to be employed while looking.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:57 AM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,673 posts, read 2,017,050 times
Reputation: 3671
yeah, don't fight it, but let them get rid of you so you can collect unemployment.

they don't want you around so don't try to make things any better.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:28 AM
 
696 posts, read 254,767 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
I wonder what is wrong with workplaces and managers that try so hard to break people. It's all politics these days. It seems even worse than 20 years ago. I'm glad now I work from home.
Because nowadays everybody has to be "better" than the next guy, so s/he can keep her/his job. People are much competitive. They always try or want to be above others, so they can feel they have power and yearn for controlling others.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,614 posts, read 17,598,460 times
Reputation: 27693
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Do NOT turn in any notices to leave until you have secured another job. If the OP resigns that is leaving money on the table by not getting unemployment benefits and possibly missing out on a severance package.

The PIPs end date don't mean anything. They can fire before the end of the PIP or after it. I know it is no fun to be fired, but it is financially better to wait for it. Also, while the OP looks for another job, it is better to be employed while looking.
The OP needs to make that decision with the info they have on-hand.

When these kinds of things happen, you can usually see it coming for awhile. I knew the job where I was placed on a PIP wasn't the right fit within a couple of weeks, and started pounding the pavement immediately.

I had calls coming in left and right, and felt very confident in the job I eventually got. Even if I hadn't gotten it, it's unlikely I'd have been out of work more than another month or two. I had enough cash on hand to keep me going for about five months, though the credit cards had been run up. In my case, there was no severance. If they're firing you for performance reasons, it's unlikely you'll get severance anyway.

I'm not disputing that he would be better off financially to wait it out, but depending on how confident he is in finding other work, it may be worth quitting just for his own mental well-being.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:46 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 2,039,985 times
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Quitting means you don't have income, you aren't employed (and therefore less attractive to potential employers) and you kill your unemployment claim (which the company might fight even if they do fire you). Unless they are torturing you, there is no upside to quitting. Stick it to them and make them follow through on their threat. I wouldn't make anything easy on them, which is exactly what you do when you quit.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:46 PM
 
1,550 posts, read 404,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
When these kinds of things happen, you can usually see it coming for awhile. I knew the job where I was placed on a PIP wasn't the right fit within a couple of weeks, and started pounding the pavement immediately.

I had calls coming in left and right, and felt very confident in the job I eventually got. Even if I hadn't gotten it, it's unlikely I'd have been out of work more than another month or two. I had enough cash on hand to keep me going for about five months, though the credit cards had been run up. In my case, there was no severance. If they're firing you for performance reasons, it's unlikely you'll get severance anyway.

I'm not disputing that he would be better off financially to wait it out, but depending on how confident he is in finding other work, it may be worth quitting just for his own mental well-being.
Everything can be going peachy at work, and entirely unknown to you upper management has a meeting and decides to tell each department to reduce their head count by one person so they can meet an actual budget. You aren't going to know anything about this or feel a real vibe something is wrong, because is has zero to do with your work performance or how you fit in. They look at who is costing them the most and see if they can do without that person at least for now. They can always hire someone later or hire a contractor. Yes, you can always be better at your job so this doesn't happen, but not only skills are urgently needed at every moment of the business life cycle of projects. So if they think they could do with one less software tester for this 18 month project, that's the person they will find a way to get rid of, and a PIP is a quiet and inexpensive way to do this.

You can have rotten performance and still get severance. Severance isn't a gift. It is calculated based on the number of months service on the job. People can get fired for lack of performance and still get severance, unemployment and even their bonus if it was based on company performance and not the individual. When it comes to severance it matters what the company policy is about it. If you are fired for something serious such as doing something unlawful, then you wouldn't get severance. But if you didn't meet your sales quota or your software has too many bugs, that isn't a strong enough reason to deny severance.

Yes, it can be unpleasant to stick around, but so are those last 2 weeks when you have given notice before starting a new job in another company.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:03 PM
 
6,371 posts, read 3,488,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Everything can be going peachy at work, and entirely unknown to you upper management has a meeting and decides to tell each department to reduce their head count by one person so they can meet an actual budget. You aren't going to know anything about this or feel a real vibe something is wrong, because is has zero to do with your work performance or how you fit in. They look at who is costing them the most and see if they can do without that person at least for now. They can always hire someone later or hire a contractor. Yes, you can always be better at your job so this doesn't happen, but not only skills are urgently needed at every moment of the business life cycle of projects. So if they think they could do with one less software tester for this 18 month project, that's the person they will find a way to get rid of, and a PIP is a quiet and inexpensive way to do this.

You can have rotten performance and still get severance. Severance isn't a gift. It is calculated based on the number of months service on the job. People can get fired for lack of performance and still get severance, unemployment and even their bonus if it was based on company performance and not the individual. When it comes to severance it matters what the company policy is about it. If you are fired for something serious such as doing something unlawful, then you wouldn't get severance. But if you didn't meet your sales quota or your software has too many bugs, that isn't a strong enough reason to deny severance.

Yes, it can be unpleasant to stick around, but so are those last 2 weeks when you have given notice before starting a new job in another company.
Severance is also tied to some sort of agreement - non-disparagement, non-solicitation, etc. and also means you agree not to sue. Unless it’s a huge amount the company saves on potential risk and expense of a lawsuit.
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:14 AM
 
1,550 posts, read 404,523 times
Reputation: 2896
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Severance is also tied to some sort of agreement - non-disparagement, non-solicitation, etc. and also means you agree not to sue. Unless itís a huge amount the company saves on potential risk and expense of a lawsuit.
Yes. The severance shouldn't be considered entirely "free" to the employee. They also might require the employee to be available for a short period of time to answer questions about work and meet to consult for them to complete the transition while the severance is still being paid. For example, they can't find the huge proposal you worked on six months ago, and need you to locate it for them. If they find you unhelpful after you've left while still being paid the severance they could stop the payments. It greatly depends on the company and the circumstances. Severance agreements are offered to fired employees and those part of a layoff. It costs nothing for the company to include legal language in there, and many times they use a boilerplate of stuff to cover themselves. They want to make sure you don't go work for the competition and start poaching employees immediately, for example.
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