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Old 04-21-2019, 02:35 PM
 
1,665 posts, read 547,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I'm willing to just say we're talking about slightly different things, but I still see your view as being limited to "meeting lots of new [usefully connected and relevant] people" - which remains a bit circular and serving those for whom this situation already exists.

I suppose I could know 50 of my neighbors and engage them enough for them to know what I do and that I'm generally fishing for new opportunities, and Bob from down the street might tip me to apply here or there. But in general, the bulk of people you know don't have anything to do with job, career, employment or anything of the kind. It's ONLY people who are connected to you through career or employment that are in any way likely to provide this kind of connection and Old Boy Network... and other than hanging out in different after-work bars and groups with a work/career focus, you aren't likely to meet anyone who's ever going to do you any good.

Yes, "networking" as in spending a large part of your time hanging with co-workers (in the largest sense) is useful. "Networking" as in playing social butterfly across the life spectrum almost certainly isn't. And if you're inside a "networking" environment, great... but if you're not, there's next to no way to get into one.

It works for those for whom it works... too bad about the rest of us, who lack a deep web of connection from which to start.
Effective networking has absolutely nothing to do with current co-workers. It's also not being a 'social butterfly'. It's putting a plan together to connect with very different people who are connected to different groups of people. If you're 'networking' by hanging out with current co-workers, you aren't building a network that would lead to a job. Yes, getting to know people who you don't think have anything to do with your career will help you in networking for the next job. You never know who knows who.

Again, I have addressed this. You have for a 4th time selectively quoted me instead of responding to the parts of my replies relevant here. Please do not selectively quote me again. I have explained what you could do to help build networks. Respond to those parts of my replies.
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Again, I have addressed this. You have for a 4th time selectively quoted me instead of responding to the parts of my replies relevant here. Please do not selectively quote me again. I have explained what you could do to help build networks. Respond to those parts of my replies.
Okay. Your definition of networking is something very selective and complex that has nothing to do with "networking" as most people involved in business and career change understand it. Conceded.

In real short words, since I'm so obtuse, define this cloud of people with whom we should network - who are not co-workers or other people in one's field, not necessarily related in any business or career way, but somehow not friends, neighbors and greengrocers, either.
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Old 04-21-2019, 03:18 PM
 
Location: NYC
12,889 posts, read 8,725,709 times
Reputation: 14140
As a consultant, I visit a lot of companies and the common theme the last 7-8 years are big companies that started binge hiring. A lot of young workers recent grads are the main hires. A lot of them gets disenfranchised by big corporate work because the are hired into a no work job. They get all the benefits such as work from home from time to time. Volunteer work into the community. But a lot of them admit they don't know when they're gonna get real work or be involved in a real business project. A lot of these concerns are legit because many businesses are trying to slowly groom the workers into their workforce while being risk averse.

I work with some young workers and they often say they just tag along with others and have nothing to write down each work as meaningful work. Some are ok with not doing anything but many wants to start producing or being involved in some high level work.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:40 PM
 
1,665 posts, read 547,450 times
Reputation: 3555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Okay. Your definition of networking is something very selective and complex that has nothing to do with "networking" as most people involved in business and career change understand it. Conceded.

In real short words, since I'm so obtuse, define this cloud of people with whom we should network - who are not co-workers or other people in one's field, not necessarily related in any business or career way, but somehow not friends, neighbors and greengrocers, either.
Networking is connecting with people who can help you find a job. That's not an obscure definition. People you currently work with can't help you find a job at a new company.

Connecting with people in very different crowds can help you. Practice an elevator pitch, get to know how to sell yourself, and talk to as many people in very different social circles as possible. Networking is connecting with people you don't already know, not hanging out and talking to people you're friends with (or you work with).

I already said all this. Make a list of 10 companies you want to work for. Make another list of 1-2 people you know who you think might know someone at those companies. It doesn't matter if you know those people or not. Start reaching out to those people any way possible. Make a list of 3-4 organizations (social, volunteer, or otherwise). Go to an event by them.

Think about it. Your friends, family, co-workers will already help you if they can. You don't need to spend time 'networking' with people who will already help you. You need to connect with people you don't know, or people you barely know.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:49 PM
 
9,644 posts, read 4,545,718 times
Reputation: 12505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Networking is connecting with people who can help you find a job. That's not an obscure definition. People you currently work with can't help you find a job at a new company.

Sure they can. They may be aware of opportunities through their own networking and share them with you if they are not currently interested in pursuing them.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:58 PM
 
1,665 posts, read 547,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Sure they can. They may be aware of opportunities through their own networking and share them with you if they are not currently interested in pursuing them.
Ok, sure, but they already know you. You'll know if they have connections that could get you a job in the first week of job hunting. After that, you need to connect with people you don't know. They are going to help you anyway, because they know you.

Also, more often than not you aren't going to tell co-workers you're looking for a job.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,726 posts, read 26,753,064 times
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I don't know any business that hires just for the fun of it. Someone mentioned that they do this to keep HR busy. Anyone that thinks that has no idea what HR does.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,541 posts, read 17,525,434 times
Reputation: 27576
There's a big difference between retail or sales where someone may be overseeing hundreds of people and always having constant churn vs. recruiting for some kind of "bench" scenario where people are being hired with the expectation that work will pick up in the near future.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:39 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
19,983 posts, read 18,915,825 times
Reputation: 5254
Companies are hiring. If they have shoddy positions with low pay, they are not worth applying for. If they have meaningful work with decent pay, that is opportunity.
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Networking is connecting with people who can help you find a job.
Okay. A one-sentence definition really helps things along, here.

Quote:
Connecting with people in very different crowds can help you.

Networking is connecting with people you don't already know...

Make a list of 10 companies you want to work for. Make another list of 1-2 people you know who you think might know someone at those companies. It doesn't matter if you know those people or not. Start reaching out to those people any way possible.
I don't think we're ever going to reach a collateral viewpoint on this, but.

Yes, you have said all of this several times, and it's very basic, widely-known suggestions about a somewhat alternate view of "networking" - which, to most people, and in most industries, and in most actual implementations, is pretty much about hanging with people you do know, in your field, and using longstanding connections to follow buzz and recommendations to jobs.

But I still think you are blind to the point that there is almost no way to do this completely cold - "connecting with [useful] people" means you have to have some avenue or means of connecting with them, and that connection is usually through something that looks an awful lot like the traditional interpretation of "networking" - using people you do know and work with and correlate with to meet others.

Sure, I can make a long list of companies I might like to work for here in Denver... but I don't know a single person who works for any of them. I don't know a single person who might know someone who works for them. The only open social/event/mixer type points of entry I know of are at highly inaccessible times and places (downtown, at 5:30 on workdays... I'd have to be in traffic for 90 minutes and then find parking to attend one). Most are also for/by/about people literally half my age. Your vague assumption is that all this stuff is right next door or in the bar across the street from my usual hang or at a corporate event in the next building. And yay for folks who are in such a situation: they can network Lekrii-style by just getting up off their ass at lunch or quitting time.

So yes, I could go blithely wander into these loosely connected events and hope to meet someone who might be in some vague way a useful long-view connection... but I could also spend a year or more making this fragile, small web at fairly high levels of effort and never see the slightest results from it.

Your notion is perfectly valid... for someone who is already swimming in the sea of companies and potential contacts and events and loose social/business/industry events, even by just "working downtown." I don't reject any of it. But I think you're really, really not getting it that your hand-waving suggestions really aren't that different from the narrow view of "networking with the people you already know"... and assume you are already heavily "networked" in foundational ways.

Maybe I am an utterly unique case in my isolation from an existing "networking" matrix. But on reading lots of job seeking discussions here, I don't think my situation is even that rare. So I rely much more heavily on a powerhouse resume and targeted cover letter and immense online portfolio... which have yet to work in more than a year.

But go ahead, just check the box: [ ] Quietude just doesn't get it and isn't listening to me.
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