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Old 04-22-2019, 04:27 PM
 
2,897 posts, read 1,076,378 times
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Is this a thread about possibly "fake jobs" and bad corporate hiring practices, or is it one about networking?

I think networking does require you to have some idea of what you're looking for. If you're the type that will throw resumes at job board dart boards, hoping something sticks, you will have to change your habits. If you're hoping to get into a particular field and especially if you're aiming for a particular company and even more if working for a particular manager or chain head of a particular company, you'd need to be trying to work toward your target. It will take time, but it sure beats the "we liked you but chose someone else" responses you're getting on the job boards (if you're lucky, as many just get radio silence.)

Also, networking can help find out what the OP was asking too, if they really hire or just pretend to, if they're a revolving door, or if they mainly hire via references/nepotism (not implying the two are the same: as usually one can think of references as passing someone along to the hiring manager who has a good reputation in the field whereas nepotism carries with it the connotation of hiring relatives or friends, whether they are qualified or not.)
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:00 PM
 
1,721 posts, read 565,946 times
Reputation: 3658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
snip for space
You're claiming there's no way to meet new people. That's not true. I'm telling you things that I have personally done. What I am saying is what has worked for me, a very introverted person who was new to a city where he has no family or connections. "the only social events are 90 minutes away". You can't take yoga classes, join outdoors groups, volunteer at a hospital, etc? There are a lot of ways to meet new people.

Submitting resumes only with no networking has a very, very low chance of success. That's just reality. How many hours per week have you averaged in the last three months trying to build connections with new people? (and by that I mean creating and executing a structured plan to grow your network) How many professional coaches have you hired to coach you through networking?

Last edited by Lekrii; 04-22-2019 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,758 posts, read 26,819,823 times
Reputation: 20413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post


Maybe I am an utterly unique case in my isolation from an existing "networking" matrix. But on reading lots of job seeking discussions here, I don't think my situation is even that rare. So I rely much more heavily on a powerhouse resume and targeted cover letter and immense online portfolio... which have yet to work in more than a year.
Just wondering. Am I missing something? You mention that what you are doing does not work. You still don't want to try something that someone else mentions might work? What if you tried networking to people that you don't know. If it doesn't work then you are still in the same position that you already were in.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,110,981 times
Reputation: 13120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Just wondering. Am I missing something? You mention that what you are doing does not work. You still don't want to try something that someone else mentions might work? What if you tried networking to people that you don't know. If it doesn't work then you are still in the same position that you already were in.
Fair points.

My situation is complicated and I'd just as soon not lay it out in detail, both for privacy reasons and a resistance to whining about my problems.

The short of it is that I've relocated twice in the last 9 years, and the first time was a significant break from my entire career path - more or less deliberately; we set out to semi-retire at an early age and build new, smaller work lives. For a variety of reasons, those six years were pretty disastrous on a career level (and, ultimately, personal one, too - I relocated again as a newly single adult).

So what I have is a long and quite distinguished career, with some exceptional skills and experience (such as the odd national book award), and a parallel low-income career in academics), and a swiss army knife of capabilities that scares employers... with a sort of prison-term-like disruption over the past few years. Age, and the fact that I don't have a conventional and continuous dull employment record (I've been s*lf-*mpl*y*d, for gosh sake's), mean I tend to get meta-screened and first-passed a huge percentage of the time, even when applying for jobs that are all but designed for me.

My major network was pretty much left behind 8-9 years ago, the one I built in New England was tiny and fragile, and I have zero engagement here in Denver. I did spend quite a bit of effort finding and attending meetup groups and other "networking" accessible to outsiders/newcomers, but none of it led to much of anything. The major centers of my field, where I might go to company events and hang out in the right bars, are highly inaccessible - I'm out in the 'burbs, and getting to these dense downtown locations at after-work hours is insanely difficult.

I am not dismissing the suggestions for networking given here - they are all pretty basic and sensible. But my point has been that they are for people who are already in something of a network - know the corporate ecosphere, work within it, know some random scattering of people, routinely hear about events and socials around them, etc.

That's not me; I am, by circumstance and recent history, quite isolated. You could drop me in any big-city center and I might just know more people to look up or attach to. So my job hunting is limited to the relatively unproductive avenue of applying to highly targeted job listings, with a killer resume, a carefully targeted cover letter and links to a vast online portfolio of work in all fields. I don't expect a 100% return rate on this; I don't expect a 10% return. But the real number has been somewhere below 1% - and again, this is not simply bombing the job lists, it's nearly all select and targeted applications.

So I am not sure that networking, even if I had entry points and more ability to do so, would change the fact that I'm perceived as too old and "overqualified" to employ. But best of luck to those who have learned that 'networking' outside their co-workers can be a valuable avenue.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,758 posts, read 26,819,823 times
Reputation: 20413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Fair points.

My situation is complicated and I'd just as soon not lay it out in detail, both for privacy reasons and a resistance to whining about my problems.

The short of it is that I've relocated twice in the last 9 years, and the first time was a significant break from my entire career path - more or less deliberately; we set out to semi-retire at an early age and build new, smaller work lives. For a variety of reasons, those six years were pretty disastrous on a career level (and, ultimately, personal one, too - I relocated again as a newly single adult).

So what I have is a long and quite distinguished career, with some exceptional skills and experience (such as the odd national book award), and a parallel low-income career in academics), and a swiss army knife of capabilities that scares employers... with a sort of prison-term-like disruption over the past few years. Age, and the fact that I don't have a conventional and continuous dull employment record (I've been s*lf-*mpl*y*d, for gosh sake's), mean I tend to get meta-screened and first-passed a huge percentage of the time, even when applying for jobs that are all but designed for me.

My major network was pretty much left behind 8-9 years ago, the one I built in New England was tiny and fragile, and I have zero engagement here in Denver. I did spend quite a bit of effort finding and attending meetup groups and other "networking" accessible to outsiders/newcomers, but none of it led to much of anything. The major centers of my field, where I might go to company events and hang out in the right bars, are highly inaccessible - I'm out in the 'burbs, and getting to these dense downtown locations at after-work hours is insanely difficult.

I am not dismissing the suggestions for networking given here - they are all pretty basic and sensible. But my point has been that they are for people who are already in something of a network - know the corporate ecosphere, work within it, know some random scattering of people, routinely hear about events and socials around them, etc.

That's not me; I am, by circumstance and recent history, quite isolated. You could drop me in any big-city center and I might just know more people to look up or attach to. So my job hunting is limited to the relatively unproductive avenue of applying to highly targeted job listings, with a killer resume, a carefully targeted cover letter and links to a vast online portfolio of work in all fields. I don't expect a 100% return rate on this; I don't expect a 10% return. But the real number has been somewhere below 1% - and again, this is not simply bombing the job lists, it's nearly all select and targeted applications.

So I am not sure that networking, even if I had entry points and more ability to do so, would change the fact that I'm perceived as too old and "overqualified" to employ. But best of luck to those who have learned that 'networking' outside their co-workers can be a valuable avenue.
Fair enough. It is definitely easier when you have a connection, lets say an alumni association or industry membership of some kind. For some they have used there Linked in accounts to network. I have been invited to lunch meetings with my account.
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