U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-29-2019, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,541 posts, read 17,525,434 times
Reputation: 27573

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
This is the issue of why I don't like being a PM in a matrix structure. As far as management is concerned, the PM for a project is your boss for that project because the PM has responsibility for the project. Unless what they want is illegal, unethical, or unfunded, your direct boss should be supporting the PM. Unfortunately what happens is way too often it turns into a "who's the boss?" situation where nothing gets done.
I was out Friday and the PM sent an email directly to account administration asking if I had submitted a ticket for the accounts, without even CCing me.

I can do this kind of thing and don't need someone constantly policing me. That's my problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-29-2019, 07:08 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 2,309,561 times
Reputation: 14683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I was out Friday and the PM sent an email directly to account administration asking if I had submitted a ticket for the accounts, without even CCing me.

I can do this kind of thing and don't need someone constantly policing me. That's my problem.
Well, that sounds like a clerical function. If you have a project manager that's focusing on clerical matters rather than scope schedule and resources and the completion of project tasks, then she's not doing project management.


Honestly, rather than throwing "project managers" at everything, I suspect just adding a competent department secretary would often solve a lot of problems. The difference in how smooth a department runs with a competent secretary, versus everybody trying to do those tasks themselves, is like night and day. Too bad current management fads have led to the abolishment of that position.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2019, 07:58 AM
 
3,602 posts, read 1,554,600 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I work in IT, and I'm on several large, concurrent projects where we have PMs.

Each one of them, down to a person, acts like they're the boss of the analysts and engineers actually doing the work. I received a request from one of them this morning to create user accounts. My team doesn't handle that, and I was never informed of what type of accounts they needed. I get a nastygram back that "I'll take this to someone else if I need to," CCing other employees on my team who are no longer on the project. After all that, the vendor PM still didn't provide all the information required to create the accounts.

I was placed on a new project last week with a brand new PM who has never done this type of work before. He's a nice guy, but clearly in over his head and has no IT background. He's useless.

I have another project where the PM has been out sick for weeks/months and follows up on every single minor issue. She wants to another the status of minor support cases and other super granular data. She's not around enough to help, and being so granular is causing us to lose focus on the bigger picture.

Anyone else find these people to be damn near useless?
Managers are useful. They know how to project themselves. Which you or me dont have and which is why we claim we are stuck at doing meaningful work and complain they are useless.

Technically 1 technical person does the job, but its the PM who gets higher billing if you are customer facing.

Machine can do our jobs, but not a PM's job.

I have faced this in my company. I visit customers, delivery exceptional quality work, get more business, support contracts, but some PM comes and "manages" it. Just because he is able to project himself well within the company.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2019, 10:30 AM
 
32,396 posts, read 16,598,875 times
Reputation: 17428
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Honestly, rather than throwing "project managers" at everything, I suspect just adding a competent department secretary would often solve a lot of problems. The difference in how smooth a department runs with a competent secretary, versus everybody trying to do those tasks themselves, is like night and day. Too bad current management fads have led to the abolishment of that position.
Dear Lord, yes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2019, 11:01 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,879 posts, read 8,653,891 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
The matrix is another ploy just like handing out PM titles to everyone, to make people think they are actually the boss of something when they aren't at all.
Nonsense. The matrix is a ploy to give upper management a way to dodge blame for their failures in making the hard decisions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2019, 11:25 AM
 
11,118 posts, read 8,523,617 times
Reputation: 28059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Nonsense. The matrix is a ploy to give upper management a way to dodge blame for their failures in making the hard decisions.
Actually, the matrix helps manage interconnectivity between departments.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2019, 03:24 PM
 
424 posts, read 212,109 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
Please define story. It's been a while, but for me the average IT project went like this.

1. Business problem recognized and defined.
2. Initial investigation into requirements - how many programs what do they do
3. High level specifications written.
4. Detailed specifications written.
5. Schedule set up for coding, unit testing and system testing
6. Coding
7. Set up test plan after coding because only after coding do you know what you want to look for.
8. Unit testing
9. System testing
10. In mainframe shops, I would strongly recommend Silk Test with parallel execution and expected results comparisons.
11. In UNIX/Linux shops there are utilities right in the operating system that will compare files in detail.

Of course this assumes that a parallel system exists with sufficient data to simulate real world processing.
That’s not how agile works. That’s waterfall.

I’ve been in software dev for 17 years. A good PM/ Scrum Master is worth his/her weight in gold. One caveat I would like to add— I thoroughly believe PMs should have had some role on an IT project in the past other than being a PM. Be it a dev, QA, BA, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2019, 08:11 PM
 
6,836 posts, read 3,708,603 times
Reputation: 18068
I think it's interesting how many are answering only from a software perspective. Being a PM is much larger and broader than just software. I'd say software is only a part of most projects, and none at all in many others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2019, 02:37 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,879 posts, read 8,653,891 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeminoleTom View Post
I’ve been in software dev for 17 years. A good PM/ Scrum Master is worth his/her weight in gold. One caveat I would like to add— I thoroughly believe PMs should have had some role on an IT project in the past other than being a PM. Be it a dev, QA, BA, etc.
But this applies to all things in all cases. I was a better software developer because I was a management consultant for many years beforehand. I was a better PM because I was a software developer for many years beforehand.

What's really remarkable, though, is how little industry values these advantages. The extent and severity of age discrimination makes really clear that the advantages you and I are referring to are illusory - it may make sense that there would be advantages but industry has made it clear that such advantages, if they exist, aren't worth the detriments companies perceive in hiring workers over 50.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2019, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale
1,130 posts, read 552,430 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I work in IT, and I'm on several large, concurrent projects where we have PMs.

Each one of them, down to a person, acts like they're the boss of the analysts and engineers actually doing the work. I received a request from one of them this morning to create user accounts. My team doesn't handle that, and I was never informed of what type of accounts they needed. I get a nastygram back that "I'll take this to someone else if I need to," CCing other employees on my team who are no longer on the project. After all that, the vendor PM still didn't provide all the information required to create the accounts.

I was placed on a new project last week with a brand new PM who has never done this type of work before. He's a nice guy, but clearly in over his head and has no IT background. He's useless.

I have another project where the PM has been out sick for weeks/months and follows up on every single minor issue. She wants to another the status of minor support cases and other super granular data. She's not around enough to help, and being so granular is causing us to lose focus on the bigger picture.

Anyone else find these people to be damn near useless?
I understand your frustration. I do data science and python programming though. From the view of hard data analysis, the mid-level managers are more likely to be (1) laid off and (2) replaced by automation. Many companies are choosing not to backfill laid-off mid-level managers, and a corporate recruiter told me non-technical mid-level managers are among the hardest "IT" workers to place. By contrast, data scientists with deep skills in applied statistics, ETL database programming, Python, R, Java, Matlab, SAS, etc. are in ridiculously high demand.

Just go into data science and write your own ticket. The "Bill Lumberg" style of mid-level management is being automated out of existence and very hard to place these days. Ideally, what they should do is go back to college and earn a legitimate, in-demand skill in IT so that they actually become useful - lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8rnkB9sioo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top