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Old 04-25-2019, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,592 posts, read 17,582,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
How can you get a PMP without being a PM? Years ago there was a requirement of # of hours as a PM to achieve certification - has this been waived now?
Not to my knowledge. It's a catch-22 in a way.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:05 PM
 
11,137 posts, read 8,548,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Not to my knowledge. It's a catch-22 in a way.
Not really. The Project Manager's Body of Knowledge applies across all industries. The job title of PM isn't present in all industries but project work is. PMI (the PMP governing body) recognizes that project work is universal and allows people without the title of PM to get certified. You have to outline your experience and have certain education in order to just complete the application. The application has to be approved. Some applications are pulled for an in depth audit.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Not really. The Project Manager's Body of Knowledge applies across all industries. The job title of PM isn't present in all industries but project work is. PMI (the PMP governing body) recognizes that project work is universal and allows people without the title of PM to get certified. You have to outline your experience and have certain education in order to just complete the application. The application has to be approved. Some applications are pulled for an in depth audit.
That's the point. You're not going to get the PMP without PM experience.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:41 PM
 
6,855 posts, read 3,722,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
I do project management, but I actually manage the group and entire project. Too often the job title of PM is used for just about anyone who is at a desk job. It is job title inflation. A real PM is someone who has control over the budget, the resources and the people involved in it. Everyone else called a PM is not functioning at that level. People who call meetings to get group A to talk to group B aren't really doing PM, they are coordinators and managing their own work. If the people in the project don't report to you, then you aren't really a PM.
This. I think a lot of places try to cheap out and get the benefits of a PM without actually setting things up to be a real project. Basically making the PM responsible/accountable without any of the authority to successfully manage the project. Glorified facilitator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Ha ha. Ever hear of a project oriented organization vs a matrix organization vs a functional organization?

I work in a matrix organization. Google it.
Personally I hate matrix organizations. I think they're the creation of finance types who confuse headcount with productivity. Biggest problem I've seen in matrix organizations is everyone has multiple "bosses" each responsible for a project(s) yet none with the authority needed and the one supervisor who has the authority has none of the responsibility. It creates a lot of opportunity for the employee to play the different PMs against one another in a mommy said vs daddy said scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Certifications, unlike degrees, with expiration dates or annual CE (continuing education) requirements to maintain... I don't know how I feel about these.

....
I'm not a big fan of PMP certification. Seems more of a money maker for PMI than a value add, other than now companies are thinking PMI cert means they get a higher quality PM than otherwise. I'm more old school. Grow an engineer by adding finance, management, and integration skills to the engineer rather than hiring directly for PM skills.

Years ago the boss who put me in my first PM job told me I got it because I was multilingual -- I could talk to the engineers, the budget people, the craft workers, the contracts people, executive management, and customers, and translate between them. I'd say I spend less than a quarter of my time doing textbook PMI type stuff and the majority doing people, contractual, and financial stuff. And most of the contractual and financial really becomes people issues as well. One old school PM I worked with said he felt like he should have been a psychologist rather than an engineer for all the people problems he dealt with.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
PMP is great for learning the foundation, but when I got my PMs certified I ended up firing the first guy who passed because while he knew the details he couldn’t communicate well or manage expectations.
That is true for any job though. Soft skills are incredibly underrated.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:58 AM
 
40 posts, read 8,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
How can you get a PMP without being a PM? Years ago there was a requirement of # of hours as a PM to achieve certification - has this been waived now?
No, but you don't have to have a PM title to run projects. You need project management experience, not necessary the title.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:34 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,883 posts, read 8,665,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
There’s solid line and dotted line.
Not to draw us off onto a tangent, this is PM mythology. There is no such thing as a viable "solid line and dotted line" approach to anything. The basic PM principle at play is that if more than one person is "accountable" then no one is accountable. Split responsibility is no responsibility. So where there is a so-called "matrix" organization what you really have is management abrogating its non-transferable responsibility to establish clear boundaries and to establish clear lines of accountability. What ensues is a political organization rather than a productive one. /tangent
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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They are like any other person in the working world. There's some really bad ones who add no value and some really amazing ones who are amazing.
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:27 AM
 
12,299 posts, read 18,417,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I believe there are also “continuing education” type requirements as well to maintain certification.

I took the training 20 years ago but never took the exam.
Truth be told, I haven't maintained my continuing education requirements thus can no longer call myself a PMP. I probably have enough workshops I can justify it, just haven't submitted anything.
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:35 AM
 
12,299 posts, read 18,417,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post

I'm not a big fan of PMP certification. Seems more of a money maker for PMI than a value add, other than now companies are thinking PMI cert means they get a higher quality PM than otherwise. I'm more old school. Grow an engineer by adding finance, management, and integration skills to the engineer rather than hiring directly for PM skills.
I have some project managers that are saying that PMP and PMBOK is all old school - some projects are going to a an "agile" approach (APM) of project management, it gets released in scrums and based on user stories. Mostly this is applicalbe to software related projects but it's being used for other type of projects. But the principles of PMBOK still apply. Problem I have, as an accessor to project completion in a way, is they start another release before they finish the preceeding release, or use the next release to fix the problems of the first release that should have been properly planned and tested for in the first place.
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