U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,631 posts, read 3,045,045 times
Reputation: 12884

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
The places I've seen this most rampant in aren't run by Millennials. Millennials are generally also the first to put work-life balance as a priority in their lives, which is something else they get criticized for. So apparently they are at fault for all of these problems, even the ones that contradict each other. First they don't want to work, now they want to work too much.
Run by is not the same thing as staffed by, and my experience with the cool live-work loft model with skeeball machines and a beer tap is that it's filled with the 20-35 crowd.

Just owned by older, smarter, and perforce a lot wealthier and more relaxed types.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:31 AM
 
780 posts, read 204,145 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Run by is not the same thing as staffed by, and my experience with the cool live-work loft model with skeeball machines and a beer tap is that it's filled with the 20-35 crowd.

Just owned by older, smarter, and perforce a lot wealthier and more relaxed types.
WeWork is a collaborative work space for one. It's not one company.

A lot of those are tech startups, which makes sense it'd draw a younger crowd who is more tech savvy in those areas of expertise. And startups generally have a live to work culture because they are "starting up".

The companies I've observed this out of are not necessarily these types of companies though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:35 AM
 
1,691 posts, read 554,655 times
Reputation: 3572
Being busy and being overwhelmed/stressed are two different things. There are always people who will complain about the workload (at any rank in an orgainzation), and blame bad management/bad employees/bad whatever on their stress.

There are other people who, with the same workload, are not stressed and deal with it appropriately. You see that even on these forums. There are people who will find ways to complain about management/their job/etc. no matter what. They are just the type that, in a way, enjoys being stressed. That, or they are people who don't know how to tell someone no. If your manager keeps asking you to do more, and you never tell them that you cannot take on any more work, they will keep giving you more. At some point, that's your fault for not telling them that you are at capacity. I see this fairly often.

That's not to say that some organizations don't exist who pride themselves on piling work on employees, but more often than not it's more complicated than that.

Last edited by Lekrii; 04-25-2019 at 11:43 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,631 posts, read 3,045,045 times
Reputation: 12884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
WeWork is a collaborative work space for one. It's not one company.
I know that, but it's a packaging/commercialization of the live-work-loft model and provides its own helpful motoposters that urge sleeping only when you're dead, and so forth.

So groovy niche marketing/code monkey/nutriceutical startups don't even have to find their own "work your life away for us" decorations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:40 AM
 
1,550 posts, read 403,004 times
Reputation: 2896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
Have you ever worked for or observed an organization where management and the staff seem to boast about how overwhelmed they are? They joke about how little time off they take, or how many hours they put in, or even poke at how stressed they are while seeming happy about it. It's like, "Haha, our work lives are stressful and overwhelming and we embrace this as opposed to doing anything to help fix it!".

It's almost like these people get off on how overworked they are. What are your thoughts about groups like this?

Is it sadistic? A sense of pride that certain personality types get? Is it a camaraderie thing, as in uniting over this common bond?
To me this is like bragging about how much you drink. It is entirely dysfunctional. It is a sign of bad management, and since they don't know how to properly run the business they've decided to be proud of it.

From my professional experience, the places that brag about this dysfunction produce an inferior product which is always late. It is a red flag if you go on an interview that they brag about this. I'm a project manager and we plan projects. We know what the resource allocation is going to be and do the best to make very good estimates. Management that doesn't do this is intellectually lazy and more interested in creating drama about the work. Avoid them, they have nothing to be proud of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:42 AM
 
780 posts, read 204,145 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Being busy and being overwhelmed/stressed are two different things. There are always people who will complain about the workload (at any rank in an orgainzation), and blame bad management/bad employees/bad whatever on their stress.

There are other people who, with the same workload, are not stressed and deal with it appropriately. You see that even on these forums. There are people who will find ways to complain about management/their job/etc. no matter what. They are just the type that, in a way, enjoys being stressed.
I'm specifically referring to organizations where the people (management, employees, etc.) joke about how overwhelmed they are, like they hate it but they love it. They look miserable/stressed, and they say things like "we have a great PTO policy, but we don't take vacations here", or "if you have time for lunch, we haven't given you enough to do". That sort of thing, not the negative nellies constantly complaining about having to do any amount of work. These people I'm talking about almost seem to take pleasure in their misery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:46 AM
 
1,691 posts, read 554,655 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
I'm specifically referring to organizations where the people (management, employees, etc.) joke about how overwhelmed they are, like they hate it but they love it. They look miserable/stressed, and they say things like "we have a great PTO policy, but we don't take vacations here", or "if you have time for lunch, we haven't given you enough to do". That sort of thing, not the negative nellies constantly complaining about having to do any amount of work. These people I'm talking about almost seem to take pleasure in their misery.
ok, understood.

I would never work somewhere where that was a company-wide culture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,631 posts, read 3,045,045 times
Reputation: 12884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
I'm specifically referring to organizations where the people (management, employees, etc.) joke about how overwhelmed they are, like they hate it but they love it.
I know - I sort of addressed that in my first post. It's a variant, maybe an evolved variant, of the work-to-death-in-your-beanbag-chair crowd. The live-workers often wax dramatic about their endless work hours and days (before rushing back to it). A company that has turned such deviant behavior into some kind of badge of pride is just... more of the same and marching in formation about it.

But then, all the booshwah about "agile" and "lean" and other "work twice as hard with half the people" models used by much larger companies aren't much different. Gahd knows it's one of the first points on their web site, supposed to just impress the hell out of us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 12:04 PM
 
780 posts, read 204,145 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I know - I sort of addressed that in my first post. It's a variant, maybe an evolved variant, of the work-to-death-in-your-beanbag-chair crowd. The live-workers often wax dramatic about their endless work hours and days (before rushing back to it). A company that has turned such deviant behavior into some kind of badge of pride is just... more of the same and marching in formation about it.

But then, all the booshwah about "agile" and "lean" and other "work twice as hard with half the people" models used by much larger companies aren't much different. Gahd knows it's one of the first points on their web site, supposed to just impress the hell out of us.
I will concede that it's companies that try hardest promoting a hip, progressive, loose culture that seem to be some of the worst culprits of this. It seems they think that "unlimited PTO" policies, liberal telecommuting policies, industrial-looking collaborative office space, and employee rewards programs will compensate for the lack of work/life balance they expect from their employees. It's like they're telling their employees, "Hey, we'll give you these few 'cool' things if you commit to working for us and our clients around the clock whenever we need you". It might attract younger workers who are trying to prove themselves out of college, but these places usually have pretty high turnover/burnout rates from what I have observed first hand and through 2nd hand accounts. In other words, they don't stay for too long.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2019, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,631 posts, read 3,045,045 times
Reputation: 12884
I think a lot of the attraction is that the victims... er, employees get to feel superior to all us worker ants who have to slave away in an "office" on a regular schedule. They don't have to sit at a desk, and can go hang at Starbuck's any time they want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top