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Old 05-07-2019, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,557 posts, read 17,535,380 times
Reputation: 27602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I think part of what you are seeing is a combination of "local commuter school" and it's ETSU. Many of the graduates I know from ETSU went away to ETSU and left after they graduated. But a huge percent of ETSU students are locals with a local mindset.

The other part is ETSU's reputation or lack there of. Our oldest looked at ETSU and after doing the research we decided that even though it would be practically free to attend, it was still cheaper to go out of state because of the better career outcomes.

We don't limit out recruiting to local schools. But we do put our recruiting efforts into top schools throughout the southeast.
ETSU really doesn't matter - plug in UT-Martin, UT-Chattanooga, MTSU (maybe), whatever regional state U you want to go with. The results will be similar for the vast majority of these schools at this level. Belmont and Lipscomb aren't academically excellent like Vanderbilt, but they at least have the leg up of being in Nashville.

We're going through some pains where I am right now. We've had several senior level people, most with at least two decades of service within the organization, leave the area or for other roles outside of the division. You can't replace that kind of institutional knowledge quickly. You might be able to fill some of the technical gaps with remote contractors, but we're the only place in the region using some of the software we use. We don't pay well enough to attract an expert from Atlanta or northern VA.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,586 posts, read 3,010,942 times
Reputation: 12799
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
If Quietude was an LGBT black woman in transition...
Hey, who's to say I'm not?

See, if employers found out I was a 300-pound Latvian dwarf with halitosis that could peel paint and a voice that could shatter glass, who slapped every woman on the backside as she passed and used more four-letter words than others... I could just see my way clear to understanding why job offers were few.

But only a tiny handful of potential employers has even gotten to the point of finding that I am neither of the things above, or anything else.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:31 PM
 
1,104 posts, read 583,191 times
Reputation: 1965
Quote:
How do they know you're over 35 prior to the interview?
I have an uncommon name and I can do a 5 second google search and find my age.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,586 posts, read 3,010,942 times
Reputation: 12799
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanyBelle View Post
I have an uncommon name and I can do a 5 second google search and find my age.
My name is just uncommon enough that I can be found with a few added datums, but what comes up on a simple search is several academic types who write on controversial subjects (LGBT studies, etc.) I've often wondered if sloppy lookup is part of the reason I get passed over.
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:00 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,547 posts, read 70,455,727 times
Reputation: 76511
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicahgoChicahgo View Post
Was it always like this? I remember starting out in my career and there were people of all age groups. Experience was respected and sought after, not something to disdain. Now you see a much better cross section along racial and gender lines in the workplace, but those over 40 are consistently being pushed out. It's especially difficult trying to find new employment. What's crazy is that a lot of the people making the hiring decisions are themselves over 40. Yet they still choose to opt for the younger, less experienced, and in most cases less trainable candidates. Those candidates either flame out or move on quickly, and the company is back out there looking to fill the position again. And once again they will go with the shiny object, rather than reliable knowledge and experience. This isn't because they don't want to pay more. The salary is the salary no matter who they hire in most cases. If you're younger and you're offended by my post, some of you should be offended and some shouldn't. You'll know which category you fall into.
I'm not sure what kind of positions you're talking about, where "the salary is the salary, no matter who..." In many jobs, the salary is a range, not a single, fixed figure. Employers assume, that applicants with a decade or more of experience, will expect (or will negotiate) to be hired for the higher part of the range, so they pass on those candidates.

IMO, they shouldn't assume; they should ASK the candidate if they'd be ok starting at the low end of the range (if affordability is the employer's issue), so that the candidate has the option of taking the job at the lower rate, if they need the job. But employers don't do that. And in not doing that, they miss opportunities to hire highly-qualified workers, who could hit the ground running, from day one of employment, and probably make a very smooth transition into the office scene.
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Old 05-07-2019, 04:32 PM
 
6,838 posts, read 3,710,891 times
Reputation: 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
ETSU really doesn't matter - plug in UT-Martin, UT-Chattanooga, MTSU (maybe), whatever regional state U you want to go with. The results will be similar for the vast majority of these schools at this level. Belmont and Lipscomb aren't academically excellent like Vanderbilt, but they at least have the leg up of being in Nashville.

...
My point is it's not the location of a school that prevents people from searching for and finding jobs throughout the country. People look for and find jobs everywhere. I get resumes from all around the country and in the last year we've hired people from all over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
...
We're going through some pains where I am right now. We've had several senior level people, most with at least two decades of service within the organization, leave the area or for other roles outside of the division. You can't replace that kind of institutional knowledge quickly. You might be able to fill some of the technical gaps with remote contractors, but we're the only place in the region using some of the software we use. We don't pay well enough to attract an expert from Atlanta or northern VA.
Now that is a very real issue and one we're facing. We may not be in Atlanta or Nashville, but we're competing with Atlanta, Nashville, Huntsville, and other for talent. Our management doesn't seem to grasp that if we're competing with Atlanta, we have to pay like Atlanta to get people here. In fact, we may actually have to pay more to get this current generation to give up the bright lights and big city for rural Tennessee.

For too long management has had the idea similar to what you've seen with ETSU --- kids grow up local, they go to the local regional state U, and then get a job at the same place their parents worked. That model stopped working elsewhere in the country nearly 40 years ago. Academically Tennessee is behind the times in thinking graduates are going to stay local anyway, so they can get away with paying below market. Now days current graduates are seeing they can live in Atlanta or Charlotte and still be able to visit family. People have more alternatives than the Tyson chicken plant.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,557 posts, read 17,535,380 times
Reputation: 27602
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Now that is a very real issue and one we're facing. We may not be in Atlanta or Nashville, but we're competing with Atlanta, Nashville, Huntsville, and other for talent. Our management doesn't seem to grasp that if we're competing with Atlanta, we have to pay like Atlanta to get people here. In fact, we may actually have to pay more to get this current generation to give up the bright lights and big city for rural Tennessee.

For too long management has had the idea similar to what you've seen with ETSU --- kids grow up local, they go to the local regional state U, and then get a job at the same place their parents worked. That model stopped working elsewhere in the country nearly 40 years ago. Academically Tennessee is behind the times in thinking graduates are going to stay local anyway, so they can get away with paying below market. Now days current graduates are seeing they can live in Atlanta or Charlotte and still be able to visit family. People have more alternatives than the Tyson chicken plant.
The people we need are folks who can take COBOL programs and rewrite them in Java for our ERP platform. That's due by the end of next year. Generally, those are going to be tech "white hairs." If paid competitively, you could probably get people on the tail end of their careers for a few years as they transition to retirement, but you're not going to get a $150k expert in Atlanta to come here for $70k.

The "leading" HR/payroll systems analyst left. She had been here twenty years, but was only in her late 40s. The other SME has been here around thirty years, is in her sixties, and has been everything from a UNIX systems admin, COBOL developer, and HR manager. She hasn't worked anywhere else since she was in her 20s. The older SME is an encyclopedia of HR/payroll domain knowledge, and knows well more than enough COBOL/SQL/UNIX to get herself through and mentor junior people in those areas.

You can't replace people with thirty years of institutional and technical expertise on the fly. I'm 33. There are two entry level guys who report to my manager who are in their 20s. One senior analyst is 38, but he was formerly a director of software engineering at a local bank. I think twelve people report to my manager, and aside from the younger guys, me, and one senior analyst, and the remainder are all 60+, save one woman who is 53.

You'd think the company would want to develop younger people into senior analysts and managers, but there are quotas on the number of senior analysts preventing newer people from getting through. There are management vacancies, but they're bringing in people from the outside. When level 1 analysts start at $38k as salaried exempt with 24x7 on-call responsibilities 1/3 weeks and no real potential of promotion, it's a hard sell. No one from outside the area or without local ties would even consider it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:22 PM
 
6,838 posts, read 3,710,891 times
Reputation: 18078
Agree. You're seeing the same thing we are. One of our engineers took another job for $20k more and said the only difference was turning right instead of left coming out their driveway. That's not counting g the ones we've lost to Atlanta. Yet our HR does their labor study by comparing us to the chicken plant and local businesses. Only we're not hiring chicken pluckers; we're hiring scientists and engineers.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,586 posts, read 3,010,942 times
Reputation: 12799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The people we need are folks who can take COBOL programs and rewrite them in Java for our ERP platform. That's due by the end of next year. Generally, those are going to be tech "white hairs."
Who are then disposable, as they can't possibly grasp Java and subsequent metalanguages well enough to assign to new work.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:29 AM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,459 posts, read 3,634,340 times
Reputation: 19471
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicahgoChicahgo View Post
Those candidates either flame out or move on quickly, and the company is back out there looking to fill the position again. And once again they will go with the shiny object, rather than reliable knowledge and experience. This isn't because they don't want to pay more. The salary is the salary no matter who they hire in most cases. .
I worked for a business that was very youth oriented. The only people over 40 were the principals of the firm. They once sent out an email requesting everyone's personal health information. How many surgeries you had, what medications you take, what illnesses you've had, etc. This email was later used in a discrimination lawsuit against them.

I think businesses are concerned with health costs of older workers.

Age discrimination gets worse, with some businesses not wanting to hire anyone over age 30.
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