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Old 05-09-2019, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,561,360 times
Reputation: 27660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Who are then disposable, as they can't possibly grasp Java and subsequent metalanguages well enough to assign to new work.
Sure, some of these people may only be needed on a project basis, but these projects have long timelines, often get pushed back for various reasons, etc. The former head of the department retired recently. The new head did a reassessment of multiple project timelines, and all the initial ones were deemed too aggressive. We have projects stretching into 2022. This isn't going to be some three to six month engagement.

We need personnel from the junior to senior level, but I think level 1s only make in the upper $30k range, are salaried exempt with on-call responsibilities, etc. When you make $17-$18/hr doing debt collection at the local Citi call center as hourly with overtime and no responsibility, it's a tough sell for the "professional" role.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:37 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 1,494,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicahgoChicahgo View Post
Was it always like this? I remember starting out in my career and there were people of all age groups. Experience was respected and sought after, not something to disdain. Now you see a much better cross section along racial and gender lines in the workplace, but those over 40 are consistently being pushed out. It's especially difficult trying to find new employment. What's crazy is that a lot of the people making the hiring decisions are themselves over 40. Yet they still choose to opt for the younger, less experienced, and in most cases less trainable candidates. Those candidates either flame out or move on quickly, and the company is back out there looking to fill the position again. And once again they will go with the shiny object, rather than reliable knowledge and experience. This isn't because they don't want to pay more. The salary is the salary no matter who they hire in most cases. If you're younger and you're offended by my post, some of you should be offended and some shouldn't. You'll know which category you fall into.
There is a trend in corporate America in recent decade: Hire the least experienced cheaper worker, train him to be expert (only works in fairy tales), and get the work done (good luck with that).
This creates 2 focus areas, one is seeking young inexperienced people, and two seeking third world low-IQ H1B workers.
This is all based on a belief that came from a book written by a Microsoft HR guru (moron), where he explains that any person is replaceable and any person can be trained to do anything. For example pick up a homeless guy, and expect him to find the connection between general relativity and quantum mechanics, after a top down corporate training. These morons truly believe that it is possible. It is a belief system. It is leftist, and anti-meritocratic. They still have consideration for "skill", but they only include managers and executives in that. The concept of a talented and skilled non-manager employee, does not crack their minds.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:41 PM
 
6,842 posts, read 3,716,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
...
This is all based on a belief that came from a book written by a Microsoft HR guru (moron), where he explains that any person is replaceable and any person can be trained to do anything. For example pick up a homeless guy, and expect him to find the connection between general relativity and quantum mechanics, after a top down corporate training. These morons truly believe that it is possible. It is a belief system. It is leftist, and anti-meritocratic. They still have consideration for "skill", but they only include managers and executives in that. The concept of a talented and skilled non-manager employee, does not crack their minds.
Can you reference that book? I'd love to see where he got such a dumb idea because I have heard executives say exactly that. I've heard several times that "you engineers think engineering is hard. We should be able to train anyone off the street to do X."
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,561,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
There is a trend in corporate America in recent decade: Hire the least experienced cheaper worker, train him to be expert (only works in fairy tales), and get the work done (good luck with that).
This creates 2 focus areas, one is seeking young inexperienced people, and two seeking third world low-IQ H1B workers.
This is all based on a belief that came from a book written by a Microsoft HR guru (moron), where he explains that any person is replaceable and any person can be trained to do anything. For example pick up a homeless guy, and expect him to find the connection between general relativity and quantum mechanics, after a top down corporate training. These morons truly believe that it is possible. It is a belief system. It is leftist, and anti-meritocratic. They still have consideration for "skill", but they only include managers and executives in that. The concept of a talented and skilled non-manager employee, does not crack their minds.
Someone with an IQ of 80 is not going to become a competent software engineer, no matter how much training is provided. There's a certain level of intellectual firepower below which someone is simply not going to be able to understand certain concepts.

I also believe there are people out there who, while not necessarily unintelligent, are essentially untrainable. When I was doing help desk work, we had a contractor that was simply unwilling to follow process. He was fired.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,598 posts, read 3,032,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
These morons truly believe that it is possible. It is a belief system.
Which they believe because everyone around them is just like that.

It's not particularly leftist or any other political stripe (other than being antithetical to economic Calvinists). It's just stupid and shortsighted, like most worldviews that come out of the tech world and/or the city-center millennial crowd.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:02 PM
 
3,296 posts, read 850,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Can you reference that book? I'd love to see where he got such a dumb idea because I have heard executives say exactly that. I've heard several times that "you engineers think engineering is hard. We should be able to train anyone off the street to do X."
Executives love to practice the amateurization, and dumbed-down, behavior-based performance coaching because it (attempts, and fails to) break down even the most complex job and into "just a series of steps that one follows".
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:06 PM
 
998 posts, read 348,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
I worked for a business that was very youth oriented. The only people over 40 were the principals of the firm. They once sent out an email requesting everyone's personal health information. How many surgeries you had, what medications you take, what illnesses you've had, etc. This email was later used in a discrimination lawsuit against them.
That has to be one of the stupidest employers on the planet. I hope they lost big on the discrimination suit.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:07 PM
 
998 posts, read 348,218 times
Reputation: 3186
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Can you reference that book? I'd love to see where he got such a dumb idea because I have heard executives say exactly that. I've heard several times that "you engineers think engineering is hard. We should be able to train anyone off the street to do X."
Watch the movie "Trading Places." That is probably where he got the idea from. LOL.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:13 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 1,494,434 times
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Once they have gotten rid of meritocracy, each clique or company comes up with their version of fashionable progressive alternatives to meritocracy, for example:
- cultural fit
- diversity hiring
- not hiring strangers. Juniper Networks careers website proudly states that you have 7x more chance of getting hire=d there if you know someone there well. It is like wetting procedure, they imagine they are the cia.
- nepotism hiring, either under the radar by managers, or encouraged by corporate as a benefit package extension to the managerial employees.
- former employer list (fishing for big name corporations on resume, trying to steal their technology, instead of innovating something better)
- training's received, as opposed to things researched and individually learned by the candidate
- elitism, ivy league only.
since they don't believe in meritocracy, they dont think for a second that any of these could possibly cause any damage to the company. They believe that the cousin of the software manager has equal chance of becoming a productive contributor, as a known expert has.

I don't remember of the title of the book. Someone was talking about it years ago.
Actually this is the implementation of the "managerial ideology", that also drove the Soviet Union. This describes an ideal society where the anointed ones lead the stupid masses. Translated to 21st century corporations, the managers lead the stupid employees. They only value "the leaders", and even they only if they are on board with all the top down dictated trends and ideologies.
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