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Old 04-30-2019, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,091,453 times
Reputation: 13079

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tolovefromANFIELD View Post
Shouldn't someone as accomplished and successful as you claim to (have been) be not have to worry about the rat race anymore at the age of 55?
Well, I'll ignore the inherent rudeness in that given that it's C-D and I am not always the most tactful SOB around myself.

I've had reasonably good success in my life, not all of it specifically career-related, but I've had a setback or two as well. For one thing, a sudden and unexpected divorce turned a comfortable pile into two not-all-that-comfortable piles.

But mostly, I am mid-50s, not mid-70s. I like what I do and I'd like to keep doing it, both for income and retirement padding and just because I don't feel like sitting on my ass making furniture or something. I write, but it's in my low-income profession and I don't expect it to do much more than pay for a vacation here and there.

I've worked for myself as much as for anyone else in my career, and I'm tired of the whole self-employment, company-managing effort. I'd rather reduce my focus to the parts I'm really good at and do it for someone else while they manage all the collateral headaches.

So being passed over, for approaching two years, based almost entirely on the point that I'm twice the age of most candidates (but by and large asking for no more compensation or consideration than they are) tends to grate a little.

Quote:
What's the point in complaining about something you can't do a damn thing about?
I will not, however, waste time addressing rank stupidity.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:14 PM
 
17,319 posts, read 10,241,707 times
Reputation: 28866
Age discrimination rant thread on CD forum, take 435.

While age discrimination is a real problem in our society, sometimes it's easy to blame age discrimination when it could very well be something else.

For the past few months we've been interviewing a variety of people to replace two people in our group that quit to move to another city. The difference between those who were older, mid 40's to early 60's, and those who were a few years out of college was like between night and day.

The older people who had decades of experience in our industry all seemed a bit jaded, had a bit of a chip on the shoulder, and seemed a bit arrogant. Yes, that's the impression many of us got from these candidates. The younger candidates were a breath of fresh air, they were all enthusiastic in a genuine way, seemed genuinely appreciative for the chance to interview with us, and were pleasant to talk to. I'm saying this as someone that's almost 50 years of age. We chose two younger candidates because first impressions are everything and in our group it's all about personality fit. For the record one of the guys that quit was in his early 60's and he was cool and pulled his weight.

So it's not always about age, it could be anything else.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,091,453 times
Reputation: 13079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Age discrimination rant thread on CD forum, take 435.
You're way behind. :}

Quote:
While age discrimination is a real problem in our society, sometimes it's easy to blame age discrimination when it could very well be something else.
...
So it's not always about age, it could be anything else.
No argument. However, one of my points, and I've seen it echoed in others, is not that we graybeards are blowing interviews, parking in the CEO's space, demanding the receptionist bring us coffee and generally pissing on all the ignorant weens we want to come on board and abuse... it's that we never get called at all.

I have what any neutral observer would agree are exceptional qualifications; I apply selectively for jobs that are a good fit and for which I am strongly to perfectly qualified (by the job listing); some of these jobs are relisted at 2- to 4-week intervals for multiple times. So it's not a matter of having so many wonderfully qualified candidates that I rank lower; it's a matter of someone looking at my resume, cover letter and portfolio and deciding that I am not even worth a desperation interview, even when a job is going unfilled for months.

I have one or two aspects on my resume that might make a company pause (mostly, a lot of self-employment with my own companies - I understand the hesitation there) but what's most evident, even though I have all but fictionalized my resume to hide the years, is that I am not 30.

You tell me why no one will even call for a phone interview, or call me in a second or third round of interviews... over multiple hiring calls.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,651 posts, read 17,623,979 times
Reputation: 27748
What's scary is that people are living longer, but being ejected from the labor force earlier. You might not begin a career until 25, then be out by 50. It's easy to live until 80 with more time in low wage, "post-career" work and retired than in the real workforce.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:29 AM
 
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
1,467 posts, read 1,134,779 times
Reputation: 2970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Well, I'll ignore the inherent rudeness in that given that it's C-D and I am not always the most tactful SOB around myself.

I've had reasonably good success in my life, not all of it specifically career-related, but I've had a setback or two as well. For one thing, a sudden and unexpected divorce turned a comfortable pile into two not-all-that-comfortable piles.

But mostly, I am mid-50s, not mid-70s. I like what I do and I'd like to keep doing it, both for income and retirement padding and just because I don't feel like sitting on my ass making furniture or something. I write, but it's in my low-income profession and I don't expect it to do much more than pay for a vacation here and there.

I've worked for myself as much as for anyone else in my career, and I'm tired of the whole self-employment, company-managing effort. I'd rather reduce my focus to the parts I'm really good at and do it for someone else while they manage all the collateral headaches.

So being passed over, for approaching two years, based almost entirely on the point that I'm twice the age of most candidates (but by and large asking for no more compensation or consideration than they are) tends to grate a little.


I will not, however, waste time addressing rank stupidity.

I'm not asking why do you have to keep working, I'm asking why do you have to even apply for jobs? Accomplished people in their profession after many years of experience get new jobs through industry relationships, not job websites.

Therefore, I'm asking why can't you leverage years of experience and relationships into a positive outcome?
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:34 AM
 
4,564 posts, read 4,739,851 times
Reputation: 3616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
The discussions here, alone, show that there's a high proportion of older applicants who can't get a phone interview; that's not my only data nor is it that of many of the more knowledgeable posters.

Sure, I guess you could be 55 and have a worthless work history. But as someone whose full c.v. runs to five or six pages, includes national book award nominations, experience from production work through running (very successful) 100-person companies and has a portfolio of work in a wide range that reflects my extensive skill set...


...and can't get a callback even with a very stripped and polished resume intended to hide my age...

...I am a little irritated at your persistence with this argument.
This is selection bias though, is it not? What do you think the average age of these forum members is? I bet you I'm on the younger side and I'm mid 30s. Most younger people are taking their problems to reddit, not city data. There are people of all ages struggling to find career like jobs, it's not just older individuals.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
5,663 posts, read 5,941,682 times
Reputation: 6489
Iím 36, unless itís some tech thing where maybe younger people are more likely trained in it, why would anyone want to hire millennials to do anything?! I mean I know there are some good ones, but itís a foolís errand hiring people who think socialism works for a *business*. If they donít know the first thing about economics, theyíre unsuitable for employment in general.

We have noticed not many people over 40 ever apply for our videographer jobs (contract jobs), but I donít blame them. I got sick of doing that work about a year and a half ago and I donít ever intend to go back. Lugging gear around all day isnít a lot of fun even if the pay is great, itís just not something most people over 40 want to do and I canít blame them, I made it to 35 and that was enough for me lol.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:13 AM
 
6,868 posts, read 3,733,857 times
Reputation: 18127
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolovefromANFIELD View Post
I'm not asking why do you have to keep working, I'm asking why do you have to even apply for jobs? Accomplished people in their profession after many years of experience get new jobs through industry relationships, not job websites.

Therefore, I'm asking why can't you leverage years of experience and relationships into a positive outcome?
A lot of baseless assumptions behind that statement. Don't know what industry you're in, but don't assume all work the same way. In mine most of the people that would be in a position to help are all in the same boat as myself.

Heck, at my last performance review my new supervisor straight up told me the reason I got a mediocre evaluation had nothing to do with performance, but all employees my age were given those so they could give all the young employees a top performance eval. (We have one of those controlled rating systems that limit the number of top performers.)

Think about that for a minute. How many supervisors would make that statement substituting race or sex for age? None. But didn't bother him in the least about age.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
1,467 posts, read 1,134,779 times
Reputation: 2970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
A lot of baseless assumptions behind that statement. Don't know what industry you're in, but don't assume all work the same way. In mine most of the people that would be in a position to help are all in the same boat as myself.

Heck, at my last performance review my new supervisor straight up told me the reason I got a mediocre evaluation had nothing to do with performance, but all employees my age were given those so they could give all the young employees a top performance eval. (We have one of those controlled rating systems that limit the number of top performers.)

Think about that for a minute. How many supervisors would make that statement substituting race or sex for age? None. But didn't bother him in the least about age.
What does it matter what industry it is? Tell me one industry where spending 10+, 20+ years within that same industry, it isn't useful to develop positive relationships with fellow co-workers, managers, customers, vendors? All for the purpose of leveraging those relationships down the line when needed.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:25 PM
 
6,868 posts, read 3,733,857 times
Reputation: 18127
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolovefromANFIELD View Post
What does it matter what industry it is? Tell me one industry where spending 10+, 20+ years within that same industry, it isn't useful to develop positive relationships with fellow co-workers, managers, customers, vendors? All for the purpose of leveraging those relationships down the line when needed.
Positive relations are good. But that does not imply that anyone in that relationship is in a position to get you a job. Just for example, vendors and customers. Neither would have jobs for people in my field. Customers come to us precisely because they can't do what we do. There are perhaps a half dozen or fewer places in the country and every one of them has the same age issues. Most of the management has been replaced over the last few years with young non technical managers.
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