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Old 05-02-2019, 07:06 AM
 
1,875 posts, read 725,273 times
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In today's workforce, many companies expect their employees to take off running and start being productive from Day One. The employees are being paid wages and are expected to produce.

That is kinda insensitive, but the employers are paying for the talent and they get to call the shots.

"We hired you to do a job. So do it."

You either sink or swim.
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Wartrace,TN
5,570 posts, read 8,923,068 times
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Many years ago I was working as a temp for the summer and was sent to a plastic bag manufacturing plant. They sent me on the floor a told me to run a machine. My "trainer" showed me how to turn it on and turn it off. That was the extent of my training. Of course the machine had issues. They never told me how to keep the bags under control as they came out; it was a big mess. I wasn't asked to return the next day.

It was a job anyone could do if they were shown how.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:57 AM
 
780 posts, read 206,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
In today's workforce, many companies expect their employees to take off running and start being productive from Day One. The employees are being paid wages and are expected to produce.

That is kinda insensitive, but the employers are paying for the talent and they get to call the shots.

"We hired you to do a job. So do it."

You either sink or swim.
This only works when people stay in the same exact role for their entire career. But most of us are aware that many people don't stay in the same exact role for their entire career.

There's a difference between not knowing a single thing and understanding some basics to be able to jump in on day 1. In most cases, you can start out in most jobs doing some basic tasks based on your skills and experience. But in most cases, you'll need some training on the way they do things in house. The more complex the job, and the younger you are in your career, obviously the more OTJ would be expected. If you're 55 years old, you've been in the field for 25 years, and you still need a ton of hand holding for an extended period, then I'd agree that there's probably going to be on a shorter leash.

Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; 05-02-2019 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:47 PM
 
1,875 posts, read 725,273 times
Reputation: 4005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
This only works when people stay in the same exact role for their entire career. But most of us are aware that many people don't stay in the same exact role for their entire career.

There's a difference between not knowing a single thing and understanding some basics to be able to jump in on day 1. In most cases, you can start out in most jobs doing some basic tasks based on your skills and experience. But in most cases, you'll need some training on the way they do things in house. The more complex the job, and the younger you are in your career, obviously the more OTJ would be expected. If you're 55 years old, you've been in the field for 25 years, and you still need a ton of hand holding for an extended period, then I'd agree that there's probably going to be on a shorter leash.
In the places that I worked in, it didn't matter what level you were, whether you climbed up rapidly or not, changed jobs within the company, or took lateral moves, the same performance was expected from all the employees all the time. Training, if given, was perfunctory at best. You were just expected to do your job, no matter who you were. The company is paying you, so do your job, was the attitude.

In the IT world where I worked, there were a lot of changes and technologies to continually learn, but you had to learn that on your own. We would discuss these issues and changes among ourselves, but there would not be any formal training. You had to grab the ball and go with it. We did help each other as much as we could, so our camaraderie was good. The companies just didn't want to invest training time. We were encouraged to learn these new technologies on our own time so that our learning would not impact billable projects. And that was already above the existing overtime that we put in supporting our projects and meeting aggressive deadlines and after hours support.

Is this a smart attitude for a company to have? Probably not, but that's the way it was.

Ross Perot of EDS used to say that if your company needs to get something done, but doesn't have the requisite expertise or knowledge, then just give that work to an employee (systems engineer, as most IT people were called in his company) whom he referred to as "young tigers". The young tiger would solve the problem. After all, he or she is being paid, so get the job done. My colleagues and I had the honor (or dishonor?) of being the "young tigers" in our organizations.

Last edited by BusinessManIT; 05-02-2019 at 02:04 PM..
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:49 PM
 
2,078 posts, read 608,367 times
Reputation: 2961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wartrace View Post
Many years ago I was working as a temp for the summer and was sent to a plastic bag manufacturing plant. They sent me on the floor a told me to run a machine. My "trainer" showed me how to turn it on and turn it off. That was the extent of my training. Of course the machine had issues. They never told me how to keep the bags under control as they came out; it was a big mess. I wasn't asked to return the next day.

It was a job anyone could do if they were shown how.
"We can't find good people!!!"
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:08 PM
 
2,078 posts, read 608,367 times
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This thread is timely because the kid I'm mentoring his new boss is a b***

We are trying to understand concretely what his new supervisor wants and she is one of those jack a***es that gives vague instructions and then gets enraged when the result is not exactly to his/her liking.

She doesn't communicate in person except for maybe once every other day for 30 minutes. She is smarmy with tone and not genuinely trying to help him get up to speed. She gave him a verbal warning on day 9 and said if this continues it won't work out. Blew up at him yesterday over some insignificant admin task (which he's not even supposed to be doing really). I saw the e-mail she wrote. It was literally one sentence and some bullet points. She gave him sh** because he isn't a mind reader.

Apparently she has a track record and they haven't been able to keep anybody in the role and apparently don't know what they need. It's unfortunate because the kid got a good vibe from literally everyone else in the office and that may have caused him to overlook red flags in HER specifically in the job interview. There's no one else to go to in terms of the job function because she's the only one in the company that handles it.

The admin said she is curt and can be insulting and the HR rep hinted this has happened before but just encouraged him and did not go into details. He is unsure on why she's playing neutral, but then again HR is HR no matter size of the company or where you go. Worthless.

The owner is a sociable nice guy who is probably scared for whatever reason of this supervisor - I have no idea why. She does not appear social and did not attend last year's holiday party and only socializes with one other individual in the company (It's about 40 people) Surely he can find someone to replace her, she's only been there 2 years. I guess for whatever reason he knows he can't pay well for good talent.

By the way when she blew up at the kid it's basically an open, semi-open office environment so HR was not far away and the admin was basically right there. (She bullied the admin in the past as well)

HR "noticed" the kid is stressed out today and said she will chat with him tomorrow. Of course the supervisor is working from home tomorrow and never really provided much shadowing or on-boarding for the kid. The JD responsibility %'s by the way are whacked and not what they communicated to him in the interview. He's having to do things that are not his strength and they are wasting time when instead they could be having him focus on the key areas he's strongest at to help further the business.

Not sure what to do here other than the obvious which is this weekend we'll be helping him start sending his resume out .... AGAIN

Not sure how we will spin this it will be VERY difficult given he just started here and now has to explain why he's leaving. Very disadvantageous situation. Unfortunately he has too much integrity (which doesn't pay the bills) and refuses to let me vouch for him and say he worked for me...
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:13 PM
Status: "Day 90 of rehab." (set 22 hours ago)
 
Location: Sheffield, England
1,609 posts, read 262,931 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephariel View Post
Yes 100%. When I first moved into a project management position, I was asked to calculate something for a stakeholder and I had no clue how to do it. And I was told on Friday it was due on Monday.

I also know a lot of Scientists that had customer facing roles without any training and they had to learn on the spot.

Companies don't want to spend time training people. That is why it is so hard to get a job without experience.
That kind of thing just smacks of corporate entitlement to me. Funny how people who would like some training get attacked as being "entitled" yet it's OK for a company to "save money" but cutting training just for THEIR own sense of gain and entitlement. Not a company I'd want to work for anyway. Most people working for other people are suckers who are too afraid to make it on their own. Self employment for the win.
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:24 PM
 
2,078 posts, read 608,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman Resu VIII View Post
Most people working for other people are suckers who are too afraid to make it on their own. Self employment for the win.
Unfortunately not that simple. I made another post on this but the clients in the wild are even dumber than these corporate middle managers. I worked out the numbers for this guy who owns a restaurant when he asked why should he pay for my services. I showed him literally 10 examples in one work day where he could have saved $1,000 that day if he paid me $100. I sent him a competitor report showing what they were doing with their enhanced POS systems, analytics, social media promotions etc. He said it all made sense, of course when it came time to even do a free trial he said he didn't have the time.

I know this guy through a colleague and my colleague tells me he complains every month about the business and how many headaches he has. He is a stubborn fool that just doesn't want to open his mind. Unfortunately this mentality is more common than you think.

The only way to get ahead whether self-employed or a cog in the corporate wheel is through connections and being a card carrying member of the fraternal order of Brother Anthony Simpson who has a 58 IQ. The IQ test when I was younger said 120. I am not welcome in the club.
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:29 PM
 
3,415 posts, read 3,556,622 times
Reputation: 4859
A proper company onboarding will give news hire at least a couple of weeks to get ramped up before being thrown into a project.
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:13 PM
 
2,078 posts, read 608,367 times
Reputation: 2961
Quote:
Originally Posted by usamathman View Post
A proper company onboarding will give news hire at least a couple of weeks to get ramped up before being thrown into a project.
It doesn't exist anymore.

They are asking you to complete tasks before your corporate laptop and e-mail are even configured.
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