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Old 05-03-2019, 06:42 AM
 
1,862 posts, read 717,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likealady View Post
And why does a candidate's age matter? are they or are they not qualified?
Age shouldn't matter first pass.
You are correct, age should not matter. But it does. Ever hear of age discrimination? It is alive and well. Younger job candidates usually command lower salaries. It is cheaper to hire them. It's all about money and saving a buck. In addition younger candidates are more inexperienced in the workforce and are more "moldable", whereas older candidates have experience, "have been there and done that", and know better how to look out for themselves. Older candidates that are past 40 tend to be looked at as set in their ways and unable to properly learn new things. So age matters. It matters a lot.
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:53 AM
 
2,658 posts, read 1,550,599 times
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I would think early 30s at first pass. But if you care just google them.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:03 AM
 
6,848 posts, read 3,718,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likealady View Post
And why does a candidate's age matter? are they or are they not qualified?
Age shouldn't matter first pass.
In this resume it's not whether age should matter, it's what's lacking that does matter. Doesn't matter what they are trying to hide, it gives the appearance of hiding something. This resume would not be in my look more closely pile.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:28 AM
 
1,862 posts, read 717,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
In the real world, you must know that none of this is happening.

Nothing is REQUIRED on a resume. Leaving off any big of information is okay. Inclusion of information is optional. Leaving the date off the degree is common and doesn't raise eyebrows. Folks are leaving off their address nowadays for privacy reasons.

Initial scans of resumes get 30-60 seconds. No one is hunting down candidates ages.

So, all these claims of age discrimination based off of a submitted resume are questionable. Perhaps there were just better candidates who more closely aligned with the company's needs.
Leaving off any big information on resumes is certainly ok. But the resume should be tailored to entice the company in hiring the candidate, not make them suspicious. Of course, leaving off the candidate's home address off the resume for privacy reasons is understandable. But not the date of graduation.

Leaving the graduation date off a resume looks strange because it helps a hiring manager see more information about a candidate's education. While a candidate can format their resume any way they wish, leaving that date off raises a red flag. The material covered for a computer information systems degree will be quite different if the person graduated in 1980, or 1995, or 2005. It gives the impression that the job candidate is hiding something, especially since the candidate can so easily provide it using 4 characters (1987, 1992, or 2001 for example).

Certainly, finding out a job candidate's age on an initial scan is not important, because there is no interest in hiring that candidate yet. Why waste the time?

However, a hiring manager will definitely look up job candidates' ages of the ones that he or she is interested in hiring, especially when it is so easy to do. Even if the hiring manager does not care to discriminate on age. It is simply gathering as much information on the candidates and covering your bases.

With hiring practices getting more stringent, with many more hoops to jump through than in the past, with detailed background checks being done on potential employees, you can be sure as h*** the candidate's age will be one of pieces in the background information that will be presented to the hiring manager, whether or not he or she wants to see it.

Age is an important factor in seeing what kind of health costs the new employee will incurr, and how much sick time the new employee could take. Also, if the candidate could keep up with an aggressive workload and how much overtime work the person's endurance and stamina could take. All things being equal, a 25 year old employee would be in a better position to handle that than a 40 year old.

So whether there is age discrimination or not, age plays an important role in determining if a person gets hired or not. It is just one factor in the hiring process.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:55 AM
 
3,974 posts, read 1,699,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Leaving off any big information on resumes is certainly ok. But the resume should be tailored to entice the company in hiring the candidate, not make them suspicious. Of course, leaving off the candidate's home address off the resume for privacy reasons is understandable. But not the date of graduation.

Leaving the graduation date off a resume looks strange because it helps a hiring manager see more information about a candidate's education. While a candidate can format their resume any way they wish, leaving that date off raises a red flag. The material covered for a computer information systems degree will be quite different if the person graduated in 1980, or 1995, or 2005. It gives the impression that the job candidate is hiding something, especially since the candidate can so easily provide it using 4 characters (1987, 1992, or 2001 for example).

Certainly, finding out a job candidate's age on an initial scan is not important, because there is no interest in hiring that candidate yet. Why waste the time?

However, a hiring manager will definitely look up job candidates' ages of the ones that he or she is interested in hiring, especially when it is so easy to do. Even if the hiring manager does not care to discriminate on age. It is simply gathering as much information on the candidates and covering your bases.

With hiring practices getting more stringent, with many more hoops to jump through than in the past, with detailed background checks being done on potential employees, you can be sure as h*** the candidate's age will be one of pieces in the background information that will be presented to the hiring manager, whether or not he or she wants to see it.

Age is an important factor in seeing what kind of health costs the new employee will incurr, and how much sick time the new employee could take. Also, if the candidate could keep up with an aggressive workload and how much overtime work the person's endurance and stamina could take. All things being equal, a 25 year old employee would be in a better position to handle that than a 40 year old.

So whether there is age discrimination or not, age plays an important role in determining if a person gets hired or not. It is just one factor in the hiring process.
Or the 40-year-old could have more experience and knowledge and could actually have more production in 30 minutes than the 25-year-old would have in 90. Youd still get more out of the 40-year-old in 8 hours for less than youd have to pay the 25-year-old for the same work over longer hours. There is a reason why older workers may be paid more. If they have institutional and subject area knowledge that the younger folks dont yet have because they are still learning the basics of working, that takes up time.
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Old 05-03-2019, 08:06 AM
 
7,598 posts, read 9,451,506 times
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Judging by the responses to a fairly decent resume, I'd say that prospective employees are justified in disliking hiring managers and HR departments, and why this sentiment is so universal..
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Old 05-03-2019, 09:19 AM
 
780 posts, read 203,923 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
In the real world, you must know that none of this is happening.

Nothing is REQUIRED on a resume. Leaving off any big of information is okay. Inclusion of information is optional. Leaving the date off the degree is common and doesn't raise eyebrows. Folks are leaving off their address nowadays for privacy reasons.

Initial scans of resumes get 30-60 seconds. No one is hunting down candidates ages.

So, all these claims of age discrimination based off of a submitted resume are questionable. Perhaps there were just better candidates who more closely aligned with the company's needs.
You might be able to circumvent the resume screening obstacle, and you might be able to slide through some phone interviews. But eventually in the process, you're going to meet someone face to face and they'll know roughly how old you are then. Not to mention, your salary requirements up front will likely classify you at a particular experience level. If you're asking for $80k/yr for a role where entry level starts around $40k/yr, and and mid-career salaries hover around $65k/yr, then they're going to be clued in to where you're at in your career. So this is great for getting a few steps further into the process. However, if age/salary/insurance rates/etc., are the basis for the hiring decision, then withholding this information only ensures that you get a few steps further in the process, but nothing else.

And I've not personally experienced age discrimination for being 'too old', because I'm in my early 30s. I'm just saying that this does not seem to resolve the main issue of getting a job when they are discriminating on the basis of old age. You can only fool them so much before they find out.

Last edited by Sir Quotes A Lot; 05-03-2019 at 09:42 AM..
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:11 AM
 
1,862 posts, read 717,074 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Or the 40-year-old could have more experience and knowledge and could actually have more production in 30 minutes than the 25-year-old would have in 90. Youd still get more out of the 40-year-old in 8 hours for less than youd have to pay the 25-year-old for the same work over longer hours. There is a reason why older workers may be paid more. If they have institutional and subject area knowledge that the younger folks dont yet have because they are still learning the basics of working, that takes up time.
You are exactly correct. But a lot of companies don't think like that anymore. All they see is labor cost savings and they may understand that younger and cheaper workers may not be as productive, but that doesn't matter. Cost savings is now more important than experience and productivity. It didn't used to be that way, but this notion is becoming increasingly common nowadays.
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:25 AM
 
1,862 posts, read 717,074 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Judging by the responses to a fairly decent resume, I'd say that prospective employees are justified in disliking hiring managers and HR departments, and why this sentiment is so universal..
Yes, the resume is decent. But hiring managers now pick everything apart to the extreme looking for problems and weaknesses and pick through everything with a fine tooth comb. Heck, it is just hiring a person, not trying to diffuse a nuclear bomb. If the employee doesn't work out they can just get another one. And despite the intense checking and grilling, many employees still don't work out and have to be replaced.

I remember how I got my first IT job in 1981. The hiring manager and I just talked for about half an hour. No pressure. No wacky questions to answer. No tests to take. No background checks. And I was given the offer the same day. And I worked out fine just as most of my peers from that era did.
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:08 AM
 
11,131 posts, read 8,540,714 times
Reputation: 28094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
You might be able to circumvent the resume screening obstacle, and you might be able to slide through some phone interviews. But eventually in the process, you're going to meet someone face to face and they'll know roughly how old you are then. Not to mention, your salary requirements up front will likely classify you at a particular experience level. If you're asking for $80k/yr for a role where entry level starts around $40k/yr, and and mid-career salaries hover around $65k/yr, then they're going to be clued in to where you're at in your career. So this is great for getting a few steps further into the process. However, if age/salary/insurance rates/etc., are the basis for the hiring decision, then withholding this information only ensures that you get a few steps further in the process, but nothing else.

And I've not personally experienced age discrimination for being 'too old', because I'm in my early 30s. I'm just saying that this does not seem to resolve the main issue of getting a job when they are discriminating on the basis of old age. You can only fool them so much before they find out.
It's a false belief that younger workers are cheap. Many young people make six figure salaries. Most places aren't hiring using actuarial data.

The point is that many claims of age discrimination from a resume submission are false.
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