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To me the biggest issue is HR internal recruiters screening resumes. Their completely false understanding of each open position makes them trying to fit non existing people in while rejecting field experts. The actualk engineering manager would be happy to hire me at many places, but they never see my resume.
With a famous company, I kept applying for years, once or twice I had emailing and phone conversations with their HR. They never forwarded my resume. Then years later the director of engineering contacted me on LinkedIn, later I asked him in private message wheteher I could work there. He was happy to ask me in for interview. After the interviews they said I was the best candidate they have seen in years. Then HR fukked it all up again, they determined that I am only allowed to be offered like $100k, while they routinely offer $160k to Ivy League fresh graduates. I told them I was making $150k at the time, they said they cannot give me that much. They also called a lot of people I ever worked with. One of them was a vile ******* liar, who probably told them something that disqualified me. The policy at corporate HR is to only hire people who never had any enemies and who was hyper-social sucking up to every person even to backstabbers. Another anti-meritocratic policy. Then I went to another company that had zero HR interference in hiring, the managers said the same thing about me being one of the best candidates they have ever seen and they hired me for like $200k.
It's the existence of HR departments at some companies that makes job hunting a horror show.
Complaining in forums like this may help some executives to finally decide to cut back the power of HR or get rid of the HR department completely. Contrary to the common belief, HR does not contribute any value to any corporation. Especially not in the hiring process, but not even later. It is a parasite.
To me the biggest issue is HR internal recruiters screening resumes. Their completely false understanding of each open position makes them trying to fit non existing people in while rejecting field experts.
Haha.. yea. Those guys' job is to listen to keywords. Some times it's best to just feed them with whatever keyword they want to hear.
I can tell they are clueless based on the type of follow up questions they ask. My last phone screening with HR was akin to this:
HR: "Do you have experience in writing sentences?"
Me: "Well, I've written books before."
HR: "Ok. I understand. But have you ever written a sentence before? We want someone has no problem writing sentences."
Me: "*sigh* Yea.. I've written sentences before."
HR: "Do you know your ABC's?"
ME: "Yea.. I've learned the alphabet back in school"
HR: "The.. Alpha...bet? :/"
ME: "Yea.. The Alphabet... That's the right terminology for the ABC's"
HR: "Have you ever use... The Alphabet, you called it, to write your sentences?"
ME: "Yes."
HR: "Do you currently use Pencils to write sentences"
ME: "No. My employer chooses to use Pens instead."
HR: "I see. Well, we were looking for someone who uses Pencils. I'll forward your resume and.. we'll see. Thank you. Take care."
@Bobsell....
-Lekrii (or any other poster) is not saying the job market is perfect.
-No one here think you can just waltz into a company and get a job.
-Everyone seem to agree that there are a lot unfairness in the hiring process.
What some here are trying to say is, nagging&complaining about all those problems won't do you any good. You have zero control over them. It's best to focus on the stuff you actually have control over to improve your odds.
Reading your posts (from various threads), it's like you are looking for someone to tell you an exact step-by-step formula that you can implement to guarantee the position your desire. There isn't one.
For me, it has been a combination of attitude, luck and day-to-day decisions.
Why is posting employment/hiring issues on a forum considered complaining or nagging?
Or are people just supposed to sweep things under the rug and let employers do whatever they want without any feedback whatsoever? I would think posting feedback and observations would lead at least some employers or hiring managers to consider how bad they come off in the hiring process.
Why is posting employment/hiring issues on a forum considered complaining or nagging?
Because the elites - Elect - among us who have sailed effortlessly from job to job and never encountered a downturn, gap or discrimination are convinced that none of those things exist. So the rest of us are just whiny losers in the economic tango.
Quote:
Or are people just supposed to sweep things under the rug and let employers do whatever they want without any feedback whatsoever? I would think posting feedback and observations would lead at least some employers or hiring managers to consider how bad they come off in the hiring process.
This forum, and the many threads with believable reporting about job and hiring issues, is only one data source for me in my sense that "something is wrong, here, despite all the rosy reports."
I'm not alone in that. I think a reckoning is coming, and when it does, the Elect will wave it off as something they saw long ago and [the survivors] managed to avoid with their superior practices.
Why is posting employment/hiring issues on a forum considered complaining or nagging?
Or are people just supposed to sweep things under the rug and let employers do whatever they want without any feedback whatsoever? I would think posting feedback and observations would lead at least some employers or hiring managers to consider how bad they come off in the hiring process.
Exactly correct. This is a discussion forum for people to disseminate their experiences and views. No one is supposed to be called out for "complaining". If one goes by this standard then just about any post here is automatically a complaint.
Haha.. yea. Those guys' job is to listen to keywords. Some times it's best to just feed them with whatever keyword they want to hear.
I can tell they are clueless based on the type of follow up questions they ask. My last phone screening with HR was akin to this:
HR: "Do you have experience in writing sentences?"
...
LOL. I've had phone screens like that. These are the same HR people who write job descriptions -- 60 bullet points and you still can't tell what the job entails. And require 15 years of experience with products that have only existed for 10 years.
Haha.. yea. Those guys' job is to listen to keywords. Some times it's best to just feed them with whatever keyword they want to hear.
I can tell they are clueless based on the type of follow up questions they ask. My last phone screening with HR was akin to this:
HR: "Do you have experience in writing sentences?"
Me: "Well, I've written books before."
HR: "Ok. I understand. But have you ever written a sentence before? We want someone has no problem writing sentences."
Me: "*sigh* Yea.. I've written sentences before."
HR: "Do you know your ABC's?"
ME: "Yea.. I've learned the alphabet back in school"
HR: "The.. Alpha...bet? :/"
ME: "Yea.. The Alphabet... That's the right terminology for the ABC's"
HR: "Have you ever use... The Alphabet, you called it, to write your sentences?"
ME: "Yes."
HR: "Do you currently use Pencils to write sentences"
ME: "No. My employer chooses to use Pens instead."
HR: "I see. Well, we were looking for someone who uses Pencils. I'll forward your resume and.. we'll see. Thank you. Take care."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthnry
LOL. I've had phone screens like that. These are the same HR people who write job descriptions -- 60 bullet points and you still can't tell what the job entails. And require 15 years of experience with products that have only existed for 10 years.
They add skill requirement to the list that are irrelevant to the job.
For example the manager tells them the candidate has to make project schedules. Then the HR person writes down "schedule and department budget". Then I apply and they reject me for not having experience with department budget allocations. The moron actually told me on the phone. The manager never knows I applied, never sees my resume.
How can these counter-productive morons be removed from the process?
LOL. I've had phone screens like that. These are the same HR people who write job descriptions -- 60 bullet points and you still can't tell what the job entails. And require 15 years of experience with products that have only existed for 10 years.
That's endemic in my field. F'rex, I've been doing UI/UX since long before it had a catchy acronym... but when specific tools like wireframe designers came along, I saw ads that wanted experience with them that had to extend back into their beta era.
Clueless keyword filtering has replaced anything like actual, you know, work in the recruiting field. But they're all just playing with their smartphones while the sorting system works, anyway.
They add skill requirement to the list that are irrelevant to the job.
For example the manager tells them the candidate has to make project schedules. Then the HR person writes down "schedule and department budget". Then I apply and they reject me for not having experience with department budget allocations. The moron actually told me on the phone. The manager never knows I applied, never sees my resume.
How can these counter-productive morons be removed from the process?
It's hopeless. All this talk about the skills gap is because good candidates get screened out by useless HR drones and resume filtering software for bizarre reasons like this. Then HR tells the hiring manager that there are no qualified applicants.
Exactly correct. This is a discussion forum for people to disseminate their experiences and views. No one is supposed to be called out for "complaining". If one goes by this standard then just about any post here is automatically a complaint.
But it seems to be okay for employers to whine and complain that they can't find anyone to fill their jobs.
Double standard as usual.
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