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Old 05-09-2019, 04:42 PM
 
1,684 posts, read 552,364 times
Reputation: 3567

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You keep banging this drum with a very steady beat, and completely ignoring any contrary comments.

IF you are in some defined careers with a finite number of possible employers - an actuary in Hartford, a lead software developer in San Jose, a cowboy in Cheyenne - yep, sure, "networking" in your relatively small pool of co-workers and parallel company employees is certain to be very productive. And it starts with all the connections you already have to this small pool - years of working with people who have spread around and give you entry to, say, another company's product announcement or company party or just preferred bar.

BUT if you're a more general worker/professional and you don't have a strong web of work/career ties to build on, it's just a tad more difficult.

There are, conservatively speaking, 5-10,000 businesses in the greater Denver area that could/would hire me to mutually satisfactory ends. They cover the spectrum of business and industry types - from straightforward web and online developers to RE offices to medical professionals to engineering of every type, and of course the growing cannabis industry. Just to name a few.

How, exactly, do you suggest I "network" to 200,000 people in fifty industries across 10,000 companies of every stripe in a geographical region forty miles across? I could spend years (and have) spinning a web so tenuous that no job twitch ever comes across the wires to me.

But yep, if you're one of 1000 software architects in a city zone with four major developers, networking is just da bomb. Got it.
How many hours have you spent in the last week putting together lists of target companies, researching people who impress you who work in those companies, and brainstorming plans on how to connect with those people?

How many hours/week do you spend building strategies to network and executing those plans?
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:58 PM
 
613 posts, read 267,518 times
Reputation: 1477
I don't see how randomly talking to strangers one time will lead to anything.

People typically help out their buddies. Not some random guy they had a tipsy conversation with at the club while secretly checking out the girl in the red dress.

I've always thought "Networking" meant to build an ACTUAL PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with the right type of people. This way, you'll have a few buddies who might end up in a position to open a few doors for you, if needed.

Last edited by Liar_Liar; 05-09-2019 at 05:16 PM..
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,604 posts, read 3,032,047 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
How many hours have you spent in the last week putting together lists of target companies, researching people who impress you who work in those companies, and brainstorming plans on how to connect with those people?

How many hours/week do you spend building strategies to network and executing those plans?
Get back to me when you get it.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:39 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 1,495,177 times
Reputation: 817
Then you guys are part of the problem in undermining meritocracy.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:21 PM
 
1,862 posts, read 717,074 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthnry View Post
I wonder if we know each other! :-)

I wandered into IT at the same time with no degree at all -- just two years of college -- and had an excellent run until the big recession. Then I had to move to a new city where I had no contacts. Between the terrible job market everywhere, software that filters out candidates for incredibly narrow characteristics, and the increasing trend towards hiring short-term contractors or outsourcing instead of having IT workers on staff, I was utterly unable to get a foothold in the job market for many years despite deploying every bit of "grit" and "perseverance" I could muster. It's a different world and I sure am glad I'll be able to retire from it soon. I worry about my nephews, who are both in college now.

I totally understand people who have given up. It really can seem hopeless. There are probably plenty of capable workers out there who got rid of all their stuff and moved in with a family member or found some other way to survive on very little (or ended it all with an overdose).
I worked in IT almost exclusively in Michigan. So if you worked in this state, then maybe we have met.

So you are another witness who has been around long enough in the workforce to see how far it has degenerated. For workers that is. For employers, the newfangled methods that they use assure continual labor cost savings to the extreme. Fantastic! Why did they not think about those methods sooner? Oh well, their loss!

At least, you and me enjoyed some good paying stable years in the IT profession. But for younger people, both inside and outside the IT world, things look bleak. Now new college graduates have about 10 to 20 years in the labor force until they are deemed to old to hire or retain.

Unfortunately, I see things getting worse rather than better in the new emerging gig economy where workers are "liberated" from traditional salaried and hourly positions and become temps and contingent workers with far reduced or eliminated benefits. It is an interesting "liberation". A liberation from good jobs, money, benefits, entitlements, and opportunities. So people should definitely reinvent themselves and learn to like the new normal of lowered expectations and a lower standard of living.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:45 PM
 
780 posts, read 203,746 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liar_Liar View Post
I don't see how randomly talking to strangers one time will lead to anything.

People typically help out their buddies. Not some random guy they had a tipsy conversation with at the club while secretly checking out the girl in the red dress.

I've always thought "Networking" meant to build an ACTUAL PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with the right type of people. This way, you'll have a few buddies who might end up in a position to open a few doors for you, if needed.
You're right. These sorts of things take time, years even. These networks are built through long time personal or professional connections, not one-nighters. For some folks, networking is a lifestyle; their livelihood is dependent on it. I personally don't get a lot of time doing it outside of my actual profession. Between work, going to the gym, cooking dinner, being with my wife, and having a life, etc., I don't have a lot of time to spend networking as an extracurricular. One of these days, I would like to join some sort of professional association that has bi-monthly or monthly events. That'd probably be my best bet at networking outside of my job.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:57 PM
 
2,067 posts, read 598,252 times
Reputation: 2928
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
A liberation from good jobs, money, benefits, entitlements, and opportunities. So people should definitely reinvent themselves and learn to like the new normal of lowered expectations and a lower standard of living.
Yes eating ramen noodles, diabetic on insulin and dialysis and a maximum life expectancy of 45 years old. We're turning back the clock in wonderful ways!!!!
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:46 PM
 
31 posts, read 46,981 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liar_Liar View Post
I don't see how randomly talking to strangers one time will lead to anything.

People typically help out their buddies. Not some random guy they had a tipsy conversation with at the club while secretly checking out the girl in the red dress.

I've always thought "Networking" meant to build an ACTUAL PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with the right type of people. This way, you'll have a few buddies who might end up in a position to open a few doors for you, if needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
. You're right. These sorts of things take time, years even. These networks are built through long time personal or professional connections, not one-nighters. For some folks, networking is a lifestyle; their livelihood is dependent on it. I personally don't get a lot of time doing it outside of my actual profession. Between work, going to the gym, cooking dinner, being with my wife, and having a life, etc., I don't have a lot of time to spend networking as an extracurricular. 2. One of these days, I would like to join some sort of professional association that has bi-monthly or monthly events. That'd probably be my best bet at networking outside of my job.
1. This is why it rubs me the wrong way when I see someone says "Oh.. He/she JUST knew the right person" as if it's a cheat. Umm... No... Odds are, they didn't JUST know the right person. They dedicated a good portion of their lives into socializing. They probably went through countless trial and errors to get to a place where they have 1 or 2 friend that can do them these types of favors. It's no different than investing time&money into learning new skills with the hope that it will lead somewhere.

2. Same. But I feel like going to a career-related thing will be too obvious. Odds are, they'll be like 50 people will the same educational&professional background as me who are kissing up to the few people who have hiring powers at their workplace.

Networking is definitely something I need to work on now that I am nearing 30. I am thinking about joining a church in a high-end neighborhood to see how it goes. I grew up baptist. I can definitely pretend to believe. The only thing I like about church is that they always have some type of events going. The regulars typically end up becoming buddies. Hopefully I'll meet a few people who hold management positions here and there.

Last edited by Dash_E; 05-09-2019 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:55 PM
 
2,420 posts, read 691,725 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot View Post
These aren't necessarily entry level jobs. I came into my current role with a decade of experience in various areas, but very little in this particular industry.
So you met an employer who accepts transferable skills. How do you find those employers?


Quote:
This really isn't a science, so I can't break it down into a formula of how it works out. A lot of it is just getting a lucky break
So random chance.

Quote:
What has definitely seemed to work to my advantage is a willingness to learn the ropes. I make that clear in every interview.
Willingness to learn is not seen as a plus by employers. Employers want you to ALREADY KNOW the ropes. They expect other employers to show you the ropes.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:58 PM
 
2,420 posts, read 691,725 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
I absolutely point the finger at myself.
This is the first time you've done so. The remaining 99.9% of the time you point the finger at candidates.


Quote:
There are also obviously bad employers. They discriminate, there is nepotism, a lack of meritocracy, there are awful, unqualified people running many companies.
And doing 100% perfection will never get me a job with them. Not that I'd want to get a job with them - but they're the ones who usually have the job openings. Not one of your suggestions will work at getting a job with them.

Quote:
Complaining about them does not help me in my career.
And pretending they don't exist and everything is rainbows and unicorns in the job market will not help me in my career either. Checkmate.
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