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Old 05-22-2019, 07:26 PM
 
542 posts, read 623,493 times
Reputation: 800

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I smell fear among some about going direct and being afraid of what you get back in the responses.

Watch this YouTube video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDKbwXR812Q

Pay attention to what she says not to do and what to do. She is spot on the majority of it. It works. There will always be rejection no matter the way you go about it.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,641 posts, read 3,053,074 times
Reputation: 12925
Yeah, I smell something here, all right. Bye.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,641 posts, read 3,053,074 times
Reputation: 12925
So another datum, which the "you're all just whiners" crowd can skip.

Job squarely in my wheelhouse, description looks like a photocopy of my resume in many respects. Only a few minor points of difference, and I have solid skills and experience that minimize those. My overall set covers the ground like a tent covers a tablecloth.

Tweaked the resume to emphasize the matches. Wrote a very careful and concise cover letter connecting my experience and their stated desires for the position.

Got a boilerplate "Gosh, thanks, but we've decided to move along" reply about 24 hours later. The job is still listed.

I can't conceive of how a human recruiter could have looked at my application and decided I wasn't worth even a phone interview, given that they apparently haven't had some perfect candidate walk through the door. I can only conclude that I am somehow not including enough of the precisely-correct keywords... or that the online meta-analysis estimated my age as being past some arbitrary point.

I am beginning to lose my sense of humor about this.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:29 PM
 
1,864 posts, read 718,513 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So another datum, which the "you're all just whiners" crowd can skip.

Job squarely in my wheelhouse, description looks like a photocopy of my resume in many respects. Only a few minor points of difference, and I have solid skills and experience that minimize those. My overall set covers the ground like a tent covers a tablecloth.

Tweaked the resume to emphasize the matches. Wrote a very careful and concise cover letter connecting my experience and their stated desires for the position.

Got a boilerplate "Gosh, thanks, but we've decided to move along" reply about 24 hours later. The job is still listed.

I can't conceive of how a human recruiter could have looked at my application and decided I wasn't worth even a phone interview, given that they apparently haven't had some perfect candidate walk through the door. I can only conclude that I am somehow not including enough of the precisely-correct keywords... or that the online meta-analysis estimated my age as being past some arbitrary point.

I am beginning to lose my sense of humor about this.
Perhaps there are many other candidates with perfect or near perfect qualifications for this position. There is intense competition in many industries. So maybe it is the sheer volume of qualified job applicants who make it tough in securing a position.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,641 posts, read 3,053,074 times
Reputation: 12925
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Perhaps there are many other candidates with perfect or near perfect qualifications for this position. There is intense competition in many industries. So maybe it is the sheer volume of qualified job applicants who make it tough in securing a position.
I don't work in an intensely competitive field - some, yes, but not an IT slot where you can add up qualification with a calculator.

And I'd be... well, not content, but understanding if I was outclassed by other candidates... but the rejection bounced back almost instantly and the job is still actively listed. I can't think of a set of conditions that would have those results except failing an initial meta-screening.

Besides dry qualifications, I have an... interesting resume. I have, in the past, been called by people who just wanted to talk to me about my experience. As horribly arrogant, egotistical and entitled as it might sound, I can't really imagine that a motivated human recruiter wouldn't at least reach out with some questions or a quick call.

If I am dropped after even a phone interview or exchange of questions, I don't feel 'cheated' in the slightest. Failing to get past stupid AI to even the first of human screeners... well.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:09 PM
 
1,611 posts, read 1,125,470 times
Reputation: 2424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
If I am dropped after even a phone interview or exchange of questions, I don't feel 'cheated' in the slightest. Failing to get past stupid AI to even the first of human screeners... well.
Quietude, I have had the exact same experiences as you many times. What you describe is disturbingly common. I feel your pain. I'm in a good place now, but I had a lot of bad years during the recession.

Have you heard of Liz Ryan of Human Workplace? ("The company was founded by Liz Ryan, a former Fortune 500 HR SVP and the worlds most widely-read career adviser.") I follow her on Twitter, and she regularly goes on long rants about how broken the HR system is these days. She hits it on the nose about job descriptions, posting of openings that don't exist, non-responsiveness of recruiters and HR, screening software, interviewing practices, all that stuff. It's helpful to know it's not just you.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:10 PM
 
1,864 posts, read 718,513 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I don't work in an intensely competitive field - some, yes, but not an IT slot where you can add up qualification with a calculator.

And I'd be... well, not content, but understanding if I was outclassed by other candidates... but the rejection bounced back almost instantly and the job is still actively listed. I can't think of a set of conditions that would have those results except failing an initial meta-screening.

Besides dry qualifications, I have an... interesting resume. I have, in the past, been called by people who just wanted to talk to me about my experience. As horribly arrogant, egotistical and entitled as it might sound, I can't really imagine that a motivated human recruiter wouldn't at least reach out with some questions or a quick call.

If I am dropped after even a phone interview or exchange of questions, I don't feel 'cheated' in the slightest. Failing to get past stupid AI to even the first of human screeners... well.
Sorry that you're having this problem. The hiring process is wacky these days.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,641 posts, read 3,053,074 times
Reputation: 12925
Can't rep you for some reason, K, but thanks.

If I had a useless or outdated skill set, I wouldn't say anything.
If my field had dried up and blown away, I wouldn't say anything.
If I really thought there were scads of 'better qualified candidates' for every one of these jobs...
If job listings for my qualifications were rare...
If job listings blinked in and out of existence because better-faster-motivated candidates were beating me to them...
If I knew nothing about writing effective resumes...

But it's none of that. I'm exceptionally skilled and experienced, current in tools, techniques and zeitgeist, job listings are plentiful, and some persist for weeks or months after having quickly rejected me.

Age sucks.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:55 PM
 
1,864 posts, read 718,513 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Can't rep you for some reason, K, but thanks.

If I had a useless or outdated skill set, I wouldn't say anything.
If my field had dried up and blown away, I wouldn't say anything.
If I really thought there were scads of 'better qualified candidates' for every one of these jobs...
If job listings for my qualifications were rare...
If job listings blinked in and out of existence because better-faster-motivated candidates were beating me to them...
If I knew nothing about writing effective resumes...

But it's none of that. I'm exceptionally skilled and experienced, current in tools, techniques and zeitgeist, job listings are plentiful, and some persist for weeks or months after having quickly rejected me.

Age sucks.
Yes, then I am inclined to agree that it is due to age discrimination, especially if you are over 30. Employers want young and cheap these days, not bright, experienced and accomplished individuals. They don't want to pay extra for that.
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,641 posts, read 3,053,074 times
Reputation: 12925
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Yes, then I am inclined to agree that it is due to age discrimination, especially if you are over 30. Employers want young and cheap these days, not bright, experienced and accomplished individuals. They don't want to pay extra for that.
Which is why, at the first opportunity (when and if I ever get it) I stress I am looking for par compensation for middling-grade positions, not what I might ask for a career-peak placement. I've even alluded to total compensation cost - including my more-costly health coverage - as negotiable.

But that doesn't stop the subtle blockage and rejection as soon as it's evident I'm not 35. I don't get a chance to say they can have all I can bring for the same price as some half-valuable 30yo.

(I'm not looking lower because I'm compromising or desperate - I am simply at a life stage where relatively modest income and corporate health coverage are plenty of compensation. I made my pile, more or less, through my late 30s and 40s, and I've done enough corner-office time.)
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