U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-04-2019, 10:27 PM
 
1,681 posts, read 552,364 times
Reputation: 3562

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Of course, you believe it is 100% the candidate's fault. It is never ever anyone else's fault. Rock that hobby horse quicker, please.

But it is hard to find employers who accept transferable skills. In addition, pigeonholing happens.

How does one sell themselves to an employer who refuses to hire people without experience (defined by job title)? That's a waste of time.
I never said it's 100% the candidate's fault. That's absurd. I said blaming anyone but yourself doesn't help you find a job.

There's always something you can do better, always something you can improve on. How often after you're rejected from a job do you go back through your notes from that company, your revisions for the resume you put together for that company, your networking list you developed for that job, and try to pinpoint what you could have done better?

That's my point. How do you find jobs? Networking. Meet new people, sell yourself on what you can do in everyday conversation. The same way you find any job. By the time someone reads your resume, they should already know who you are and what your story is
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-04-2019, 10:40 PM
 
613 posts, read 267,518 times
Reputation: 1477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
That's my point. How do you find jobs? Networking. Meet new people, sell yourself on what you can do in everyday conversation. The same way you find any job. By the time someone reads your resume, they should already know who you are and what your story is
Unfortunately, most people's idea of networking is sending linkedin invites to random strangers...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2019, 10:48 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 690,595 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
I never said it's 100% the candidate's fault.
I can't hear your words. Your actions scream too loud.

I have NEVER ever seen you blame ANYONE OTHER than the candidates. Not once.
Of course, you may have done this in some thread I never read. Still - the percent of blame you put on the candidates is pretty much 100%.


Quote:
That's absurd. I said blaming anyone but yourself doesn't help you find a job.
And following your belief set (employer infallibility) won't help people find a job either.



Quote:
There's always something you can do better, always something you can improve on.
OK, let's test what you are saying.

Imagine we have an economy that has 100 accountants (along with other jobs, but let's use accounting to evaluate the point). They're all employed. They're all qualified, and their employers are happy with them. Remember, in your employer infallibility viewpoint, no losers ever keep their jobs.

A recession hits. 10% of them lose their jobs because employers don't have money to pay them. The amount of accounting work continues, so they force the remaining to work longer hours. Nobody else is hiring, so they can't really jump ship, they're stuck.

The employers are not opening any accounting jobs.

Tell me, what could the accountants do to improve themselves and get an accounting job? Remember, they're not hiring accountants in this economy. You apparently believe, if someone has the ability to sell themselves good enough, employers will open up jobs when their budget won't permit it. Money can be pulled out of thin air and fund new jobs.

You'll probably say "change careers" - and they do so only to find out that there are no entry level jobs that require no experience, and on top of that, the people who have experience in that field are also looking for work too. Remember, we had a recession hit?

This is something economists call STRUCTURAL UNEMPLOYMENT. This is a real thing. It is like a musical chairs game - when the chair is taken away, everyone else either falls down or finds an open chair. When there are not enough chairs open, the only place to go is down.

The 10 accountants will have to work Mcjobs until employers decide to open up accounting jobs. And each opening will have all 10 applying for them (and also the newly minted recent grads in accounting).

But you'll look down on those 10 accountants as if there is something wrong with them and tell them they're a bunch of losers for working Mcjobs.


In the real world economy, we have discouraged workers and underemployed people. Yes, some of them took worthless majors like underwater basket weaving and * studies classes. You can make a point about them making bad decisions in life. But that's not all the candidates out there. There are plenty of people who are stuck in a position they don't want to be in.

It is possible to do EVERYTHING right and still not get ahead. Plenty of people have done that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2019, 11:13 PM
 
1,681 posts, read 552,364 times
Reputation: 3562
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
snip
Bob, we aren't in a recession. We're in the best job market we've seen in decades. It's not 2008 anymore.

There are awful employers. That fact also doesn't matter, and isn't worth mentioning. How does complaining about an employer or the job market help you personally find a job, as opposed to improving yourself? Complaining makes a person feel good emotionally, it doesn't help them find employment.

You ignored my question. Let me ask again.

How often after you're rejected from a job do you go back through your notes from that company, your revisions for the resume you put together for that company, your networking list you developed for that job, and try to pinpoint what you could have done better?

You're right. My first response when I am rejected from a job is to look at what I personally could do better. I don't blame the employer. That's not useful in my job search. I always am critical of myself, ask what I could have done better, what I could have improved, etc., so that I would have been hired by that employer, even if they were biased, or a bad employer in general. You'll never find this magical perfect employer who treats everyone fairly. That doesn't exist. You also can't control anyone but yourself. Look to improve yourself so that you are a more attractive candidate to those imperfect employers. Venting and complaining are not useful exercises in a job search.

Last edited by Lekrii; 05-04-2019 at 11:24 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2019, 05:28 AM
 
3,412 posts, read 3,545,621 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The fact is, the GDP has never been as high as it is. $21.063 Trillion. So the economy has never been this large, and that's a fact.
In 2016 there were 151 million people working. Now there are 157 million. And that's a fact.


In order to make your comments stick, shouldn't you make an effort to disprove that?
MAGA
And yet the US national debt is still increasing at alarming rates. Highest it has ever been. Should we give POTUS credit for that as well....

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/03/polit...ebt/index.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2019, 05:54 AM
 
2,063 posts, read 598,252 times
Reputation: 2918
Bobsell don't forget they're trying to replace at least 3 out of the 8 remaining Accountants in your scenario with a rinky dink barely "just good enough " AI model

They'll explain to shareholders who see profitability tank:

"Bu-bu-but we cut labor costs!"

Shareholders: "Hmmm...OK "
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2019, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Outside US
1,197 posts, read 474,312 times
Reputation: 1551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Well.

The lead article in today's NYT addresses the issue of flat wages across the last decade (until their very recent and modest rise) and presents the very well supported conclusion that (among other things) wages did not rise with the supposedly booming job market for a couple of very simple reasons: the job market wasn't really that hot, and the entire picture of unemployment may be misrepresented.

Gosh, where have we heard all this before?

From the article:
The recent uptick in wage growth suggests a simpler explanation: Perhaps the job market wasnít as good as the unemployment rate made it look.

The governmentís official definition of unemployment is relatively narrow. It counts only people actively looking for work, which means it leaves out many students, stay-at-home parents or others who might like jobs if they were available. If employers have been tapping into that broader pool of potential labor, it could help explain why they havenít been forced to raise wages faster.

It appears as if that is exactly what is happening. In recent months, more than 70 percent of people getting jobs had not been counted as unemployed the previous month. That is well above historical levels, and a sign that the strong labor market is drawing people off the sidelines.

(The NYT is running open-paywall for a few days, for reasons worth reading about while you're there, but if you need to get past the paywall limitation, use an incognito/private browser window.)
Thanks for the NYT FYI.

Yes, wages have been stagnant for many and have even declined for some.

And the COL keeps increasing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2019, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Outside US
1,197 posts, read 474,312 times
Reputation: 1551
Quote:
Originally Posted by usamathman View Post
MAGA supporters cling to the idea that the economy is at an all time high. Croc of bullsh*t. There are no more jobs than there were when Nosama was president. People will use whatever data they can to justify their political and personal beliefs.

Unless your in a high skilled white collar type of industry, you are in no better shape than you were five years ago. Stop it with the b.s.
Wise words.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2019, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Planet Telex
4,656 posts, read 2,291,550 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
In 2016 there were 151 million people working. Now there are 157 million. And that's a fact.
All of the numbers you are praising are from the same agencies which you guys said were putting out totally fake and phony two years ago. If it was fake then, why is it real now?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2019, 07:56 AM
 
2,192 posts, read 538,329 times
Reputation: 3795
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
If the job market were really awesome as they say it was, we would see:

* tons of entry level jobs that require no experience, so recent grads and career changers can get into.
* zero age discrimination
* people getting nice juicy raises...

...So this is evidence that the job market is not as good as advertised.
Once again, your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top