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Old 05-04-2019, 10:27 PM
 
5,985 posts, read 2,916,627 times
Reputation: 9026

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Of course, you believe it is 100% the candidate's fault. It is never ever anyone else's fault. Rock that hobby horse quicker, please.

But it is hard to find employers who accept transferable skills. In addition, pigeonholing happens.

How does one sell themselves to an employer who refuses to hire people without experience (defined by job title)? That's a waste of time.
I never said it's 100% the candidate's fault. That's absurd. I said blaming anyone but yourself doesn't help you find a job.

There's always something you can do better, always something you can improve on. How often after you're rejected from a job do you go back through your notes from that company, your revisions for the resume you put together for that company, your networking list you developed for that job, and try to pinpoint what you could have done better?

That's my point. How do you find jobs? Networking. Meet new people, sell yourself on what you can do in everyday conversation. The same way you find any job. By the time someone reads your resume, they should already know who you are and what your story is
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:40 PM
 
801 posts, read 547,514 times
Reputation: 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
That's my point. How do you find jobs? Networking. Meet new people, sell yourself on what you can do in everyday conversation. The same way you find any job. By the time someone reads your resume, they should already know who you are and what your story is
Unfortunately, most people's idea of networking is sending linkedin invites to random strangers...
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:48 PM
 
5,317 posts, read 3,226,802 times
Reputation: 8245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
I never said it's 100% the candidate's fault.
I can't hear your words. Your actions scream too loud.

I have NEVER ever seen you blame ANYONE OTHER than the candidates. Not once.
Of course, you may have done this in some thread I never read. Still - the percent of blame you put on the candidates is pretty much 100%.


Quote:
That's absurd. I said blaming anyone but yourself doesn't help you find a job.
And following your belief set (employer infallibility) won't help people find a job either.



Quote:
There's always something you can do better, always something you can improve on.
OK, let's test what you are saying.

Imagine we have an economy that has 100 accountants (along with other jobs, but let's use accounting to evaluate the point). They're all employed. They're all qualified, and their employers are happy with them. Remember, in your employer infallibility viewpoint, no losers ever keep their jobs.

A recession hits. 10% of them lose their jobs because employers don't have money to pay them. The amount of accounting work continues, so they force the remaining to work longer hours. Nobody else is hiring, so they can't really jump ship, they're stuck.

The employers are not opening any accounting jobs.

Tell me, what could the accountants do to improve themselves and get an accounting job? Remember, they're not hiring accountants in this economy. You apparently believe, if someone has the ability to sell themselves good enough, employers will open up jobs when their budget won't permit it. Money can be pulled out of thin air and fund new jobs.

You'll probably say "change careers" - and they do so only to find out that there are no entry level jobs that require no experience, and on top of that, the people who have experience in that field are also looking for work too. Remember, we had a recession hit?

This is something economists call STRUCTURAL UNEMPLOYMENT. This is a real thing. It is like a musical chairs game - when the chair is taken away, everyone else either falls down or finds an open chair. When there are not enough chairs open, the only place to go is down.

The 10 accountants will have to work Mcjobs until employers decide to open up accounting jobs. And each opening will have all 10 applying for them (and also the newly minted recent grads in accounting).

But you'll look down on those 10 accountants as if there is something wrong with them and tell them they're a bunch of losers for working Mcjobs.


In the real world economy, we have discouraged workers and underemployed people. Yes, some of them took worthless majors like underwater basket weaving and * studies classes. You can make a point about them making bad decisions in life. But that's not all the candidates out there. There are plenty of people who are stuck in a position they don't want to be in.

It is possible to do EVERYTHING right and still not get ahead. Plenty of people have done that.
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:13 PM
 
5,985 posts, read 2,916,627 times
Reputation: 9026
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
snip
Bob, we aren't in a recession. We're in the best job market we've seen in decades. It's not 2008 anymore.

There are awful employers. That fact also doesn't matter, and isn't worth mentioning. How does complaining about an employer or the job market help you personally find a job, as opposed to improving yourself? Complaining makes a person feel good emotionally, it doesn't help them find employment.

You ignored my question. Let me ask again.

How often after you're rejected from a job do you go back through your notes from that company, your revisions for the resume you put together for that company, your networking list you developed for that job, and try to pinpoint what you could have done better?

You're right. My first response when I am rejected from a job is to look at what I personally could do better. I don't blame the employer. That's not useful in my job search. I always am critical of myself, ask what I could have done better, what I could have improved, etc., so that I would have been hired by that employer, even if they were biased, or a bad employer in general. You'll never find this magical perfect employer who treats everyone fairly. That doesn't exist. You also can't control anyone but yourself. Look to improve yourself so that you are a more attractive candidate to those imperfect employers. Venting and complaining are not useful exercises in a job search.

Last edited by Lekrii; 05-04-2019 at 11:24 PM..
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Old 05-05-2019, 05:28 AM
 
3,452 posts, read 4,618,418 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The fact is, the GDP has never been as high as it is. $21.063 Trillion. So the economy has never been this large, and that's a fact.
In 2016 there were 151 million people working. Now there are 157 million. And that's a fact.


In order to make your comments stick, shouldn't you make an effort to disprove that?
MAGA
And yet the US national debt is still increasing at alarming rates. Highest it has ever been. Should we give POTUS credit for that as well....

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/03/polit...ebt/index.html
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Old 05-05-2019, 05:54 AM
 
7,759 posts, read 3,883,639 times
Reputation: 8851
Bobsell don't forget they're trying to replace at least 3 out of the 8 remaining Accountants in your scenario with a rinky dink barely "just good enough " AI model

They'll explain to shareholders who see profitability tank:

"Bu-bu-but we cut labor costs!"

Shareholders: "Hmmm...OK "
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Outside US
3,693 posts, read 2,412,209 times
Reputation: 5191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Well.

The lead article in today's NYT addresses the issue of flat wages across the last decade (until their very recent and modest rise) and presents the very well supported conclusion that (among other things) wages did not rise with the supposedly booming job market for a couple of very simple reasons: the job market wasn't really that hot, and the entire picture of unemployment may be misrepresented.

Gosh, where have we heard all this before?

From the article:
The recent uptick in wage growth suggests a simpler explanation: Perhaps the job market wasn’t as good as the unemployment rate made it look.

The government’s official definition of unemployment is relatively narrow. It counts only people actively looking for work, which means it leaves out many students, stay-at-home parents or others who might like jobs if they were available. If employers have been tapping into that broader pool of potential labor, it could help explain why they haven’t been forced to raise wages faster.

It appears as if that is exactly what is happening. In recent months, more than 70 percent of people getting jobs had not been counted as unemployed the previous month. That is well above historical levels, and a sign that the strong labor market is drawing people off the sidelines.

(The NYT is running open-paywall for a few days, for reasons worth reading about while you're there, but if you need to get past the paywall limitation, use an incognito/private browser window.)
Thanks for the NYT FYI.

Yes, wages have been stagnant for many and have even declined for some.

And the COL keeps increasing.
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Outside US
3,693 posts, read 2,412,209 times
Reputation: 5191
Quote:
Originally Posted by usamathman View Post
MAGA supporters cling to the idea that the economy is at an all time high. Croc of bullsh*t. There are no more jobs than there were when Nosama was president. People will use whatever data they can to justify their political and personal beliefs.

Unless your in a high skilled white collar type of industry, you are in no better shape than you were five years ago. Stop it with the b.s.
Wise words.
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Planet Telex
5,898 posts, read 3,899,147 times
Reputation: 5856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
In 2016 there were 151 million people working. Now there are 157 million. And that's a fact.
All of the numbers you are praising are from the same agencies which you guys said were putting out totally fake and phony two years ago. If it was fake then, why is it real now?
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:56 AM
 
10,609 posts, read 5,645,454 times
Reputation: 18905
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
If the job market were really awesome as they say it was, we would see:

* tons of entry level jobs that require no experience, so recent grads and career changers can get into.
* zero age discrimination
* people getting nice juicy raises...

...So this is evidence that the job market is not as good as advertised.
Once again, your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
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