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Old 05-15-2019, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
3,176 posts, read 1,954,741 times
Reputation: 3315

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Bottom line is the employee was not honest. This was a planned and deliberate deception. Human nature being what it is, one should be realistic and appreciate there's a good chance this behavior will recur... probably in a different context. Only the employer can decide if that employee is worth the risk.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,552 posts, read 10,254,632 times
Reputation: 9796
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikernut View Post
Bottom line is the employee was not honest. This was a planned and deliberate deception. Human nature being what it is, one should be realistic and appreciate there's a good chance this behavior will recur... probably in a different context. Only the employer can decide if that employee is worth the risk.
This. Put your opinions on pot use aside. The employee knowingly brought in a bogus sample. That's intent to deceive, and it calls his integrity into question. If he's lying about this to cover his ass, what else is he willing to do?

In my not-so-legal opinion, punishment really depends on whether or not this policy is in writing (and the fact that Colorado is an at-will state). If it is, the punishment could include everything from being written up to termination. If it's not then I'd write the employee up and put him on probation, and I'd immediately write the policy into the terms of employment.

If the employees don't like it they're free to buy the company or seek employment elsewhere. Nobody is entitled to a job. As long as the OP isn't breaking any employment laws, it's his right to run his business the way he sees fit. Pot smokers are not a protected class.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
5,904 posts, read 7,015,604 times
Reputation: 8638
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus2 View Post
How was he caught, and what did he say?

How was he caught, unless you insist on watching the pee come out of the body? Is somebody starring at his urethra? That seems like a really big imposition for an employer.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:17 PM
 
1,102 posts, read 582,419 times
Reputation: 1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I see nothing in the OP about punishing any employees for use, only this one's deception.

I don't know that drug testing is the right solution, but trying to keep employees who have grown casual about weed from ending up in literally terrible trouble - which would not be cost- or obligation-free for an employer who sent them overseas - is not a bad thing, IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post

I also agree with the people who don't quite get why you test them before they get airline tickets.. Either you care about usage or you don't. I'm fine with it either way, but.. Either eliminate the testing or make it true random testing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
I'm not quite understanding this. I don't think any other country will drug test your employee(s). So long as say 24 hours have passed since they last smoked weed, they won't be high.
I know the OP is concerned about the employee lying and falsifying the test, but I too don't understand what will happen to the employee if he travels to a foreign country if he has smoked in the last week. The foreign country isn't going to drug test the employee so why does the employer only test prior to the travel? What is the purpose of testing then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby Hick View Post
How was he caught, unless you insist on watching the pee come out of the body? Is somebody starring at his urethra? That seems like a really big imposition for an employer.
When I had to take a drug test for my last employment, I had to go to a testing center and I was not allowed to take anything into the bathroom nor was I able to flush the toilet or run the water in the sink until I was finished peeing and I had opened the door. I told the tester if she had that little faith in me, I would pee in front of her! LOL
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
5,904 posts, read 7,015,604 times
Reputation: 8638
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanyBelle View Post
When I had to take a drug test for my last employment, I had to go to a testing center and I was not allowed to take anything into the bathroom nor was I able to flush the toilet or run the water in the sink until I was finished peeing and I had opened the door. I told the tester if she had that little faith in me, I would pee in front of her! LOL

"Sorry about the floater. Once I started, I realized I had to do both."
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:28 PM
 
2,395 posts, read 683,329 times
Reputation: 3374
Strike 1.

If he pulls another lie and cheat like this, strike 2.

At strike 3 you're dealing with a sociopath and you need to flush that turd.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:27 PM
 
6,838 posts, read 3,708,603 times
Reputation: 18073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
...I have a feeling this otherwise honest, healthy, valuable employee "cheated" because he knew the lingering stigma cannabis users suffer could get him fired, or at least stared at differently every time he encountered you, if he had come to you and explained the situation. In this way, even regular, healthy, productive citizens of a legal state still has to live their life in the closet.

I would not penalize this employee for doing what he had to do to maneuver through a minefield of overly-restrictive, overly-stigmatized regulations that have nothing to do with his role as a valuable employee.
Relook at the part I bolded. He's not "otherwise honest." The question isn't failing a drug test. It's one of integrity. For the OP, if the employee is willing to lie and cheat here then what else is he willing to lie and cheat about. Can you trust him on other matters?

Let's forget about the drug test for a minute. What if he lied on his expense report? Or his billed hours? Or on a critical project for a client? Would you fire him for lying on any other part of his job? If so, then this should be no different.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:30 PM
 
17,245 posts, read 10,169,578 times
Reputation: 28757
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Relook at the part I bolded. He's not "otherwise honest." The question isn't failing a drug test. It's one of integrity. For the OP, if the employee is willing to lie and cheat here then what else is he willing to lie and cheat about. Can you trust him on other matters?

Let's forget about the drug test for a minute. What if he lied on his expense report? Or his billed hours? Or on a critical project for a client? Would you fire him for lying on any other part of his job? If so, then this should be no different.
Yup, some people will never get it.

Someone that is truly honest doesn't go out of their way to try and cheat a drug test.

But we live in different times these days where people scoff at notions of integrity and ethics.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,659 posts, read 6,266,537 times
Reputation: 11475
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK123 View Post
Dishonest is dishonest and is often a pattern. Fire him.
I agree. I'm willing to forgive a lot, but dishonesty is not something I generally give people a second chance on.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:05 PM
 
9,249 posts, read 11,799,248 times
Reputation: 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
Put your opinions on pot use aside. The employee knowingly brought in a bogus sample.
Exactly and that is the part the pro cannabis group is conveniently ignoring or trying to sweep under the carpet. The issue isn't about the use of cannabis, it's about the conscious and deliberate attempt at dishonesty. Personal opinion about the use of cannabis aside, I would FIRE that employee for the dishonesty.
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