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Old 05-19-2019, 02:11 PM
 
6,842 posts, read 3,714,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
True; I was just summarizing the gist of the posts so far. I completely agree that there's a reasonable, organic, productive way to build a company hierarchy... but once it's past about 20 people you will still see factions from both ends of the complaint spectrum.


My touchstone for this is the Apple genius who took years and billions to discover that you can't run a department store chain like Apple Stores.

For what might the original example, read Halberstam's The Reckoning... his chapters about how MacNamara and the other biz whiz kids came in and almost destroyed Ford with their utter lack of knowledge about the industry should be required reading in MBA school.

(When plant managers told him the paint ovens dating from the 1920s were too small for 1940s models, his suggestion was to paint the cars in two halves and then weld them together.)
It's kind of funny. What McNamara did to DoD was required reading in several of the acquisition and officership courses I attended.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:00 PM
 
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
1,467 posts, read 1,131,970 times
Reputation: 2970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie682 View Post
Times have changed.

I am a top performer. I have been received straight 5s (walks on water) by every manager I have had for the last 15 years. I have won every performance award our company offers. I was flown to the corporate office to accept an award from our CEO in front of the the entire company (thousands of people) for my process innovations and service.

Sorry there are a lot of morons in management these days that don't have the ability to think critically, lead their teams effectively and meet corporate goals. Companies are too afraid of being sued to fire these folks. The only reason my manager has a job still is because as the supervisor I pick up all his slack. He rolls in to work daily at 11 and is out by 2. Prior managers were working 70 hours a week. He missed a deadline for a subpoena from the Department of Labor...Empty vessel NOT.
If you're a top performer then you'll be able to find another job and work with managers who will appreciate what you do.

Why the anger?
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,596 posts, read 3,026,483 times
Reputation: 12834
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's kind of funny. What McNamara did to DoD was required reading in several of the acquisition and officership courses I attended.
It sure didn't stop the whiz-kid MBA era of the 1980s.

As the thread already notes, there may be nothing worse than generic management skills, no matter how high the IQ involved.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Podunk, IA
4,002 posts, read 1,810,550 times
Reputation: 4284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie682 View Post
He rolls in to work daily at 11 and is out by 2.
Sorry, but I'm more than just a little skeptical about that.
Even the most incompetant management will take notice of a person that works 3 hours a day.
Does this person take lunch fron 12 to 1 as well?
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:57 PM
 
202 posts, read 74,464 times
Reputation: 947
Default All companies are the same

When I was a young man, the incompetence in companies I worked for really bothered me. I would try to do a good job, and demand others do so as well. What did it get me? Nothing. A reputation as an employee that could not "get along" and other BS. So what solution did I find? Not giving a F***. That's right, I got right on the train with everybody else. If something is screwed up, somebody is worthless in their job, I don't care. I just do my job and go home. It has been a real relief. Try it!
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:08 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,767 posts, read 1,437,614 times
Reputation: 2743
Default Very challenging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Yep. That's actually one of the dangers you run into when you see a company with a lot of people who have been there for a very long time. Good people tend to job hop a little, given they don't put up with things like that. If you're interviewing and see a lot of people who have been at a company for decades, it could be a warning sign that they are bad workers, and run by bad management.

That being said, everyone will always work with some incompetent people. Being able to get things done in spite of those people (and to understand them and win them to your way of thinking) is a pretty important skill to develop.
It's very challenging dealing with incompetence in the workplace - especially seeing it on so many levels. I hadn't thought about the fact that when a company has people who've been there a long time, it's a warning sign of bad workers run by bad management. There may be some truth to that.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:22 PM
 
1,859 posts, read 715,844 times
Reputation: 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
It's very challenging dealing with incompetence in the workplace - especially seeing it on so many levels. I hadn't thought about the fact that when a company has people who've been there a long time, it's a warning sign of bad workers run by bad management. There may be some truth to that.
Or good workers run by bad management. There are no absolutes. Situations are quite different, not cookie cutter every time. Sometimes the problems of bad management has to be twisted around to blame the workers but not management.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:27 PM
 
760 posts, read 434,137 times
Reputation: 1686
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolovefromANFIELD View Post
If you're a top performer then you'll be able to find another job and work with managers who will appreciate what you do.

Why the anger?
Because I really LOVE what I do. I enjoy the employees I supervise. Our department just has a really terrible manager. I will likely transfer into a department with a competent manager.

Our department has had 9 managers in 12 years if that tells you anything. This one is by far the worst least qualified one of the bunch, yet has stayed the longest. We were all hoping he would leave or get pushed out, unfortunately that has not happened.

Many of our long term employees have left for other departments. The brain drain continues...
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:38 PM
 
760 posts, read 434,137 times
Reputation: 1686
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
Sorry, but I'm more than just a little skeptical about that.
Even the most incompetant management will take notice of a person that works 3 hours a day.
Does this person take lunch fron 12 to 1 as well?
Nope these really are the hours he keeps. I have never seen anything like this in my career. He's done zilch in 3 years. His Director oversees 9 departments. She is rarely in the office and travels frequently to our other officrs scattered across the country. She really has no idea what he does. He's in his little silo and rarely interacts with other departments. Basically hides in his office and prays no one asks him anything...lol

Other departments bring all the issues to me to resolve.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:42 PM
 
4,070 posts, read 1,555,548 times
Reputation: 7410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angie682 View Post
Because I really LOVE what I do. I enjoy the employees I supervise. Our department just has a really terrible manager. I will likely transfer into a department with a competent manager.

Our department has had 9 managers in 12 years if that tells you anything. This one is by far the worst least qualified one of the bunch, yet has stayed the longest. We were all hoping he would leave or get pushed out, unfortunately that has not happened.

Many of our long term employees have left for other departments. The brain drain continues...
Hmm. Sounds like you've been passed over 8 times. But I digress.

My original point is that, if incompetent coworkers and managerial boobs are so common, why is it that everyone posting in this type of thread is a "star performer"??
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