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Old 05-21-2019, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,238 posts, read 8,532,850 times
Reputation: 35672

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Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown00 View Post
+1 exactly how I feel. To me, management should accelerate hiring to backfill roles rather than just promoting first
What did the previous manager do? Many managers don't do "work" or they consult with their reports and offer advice but don't have their own projects since their job is now to manage. Usually that means a ton of meetings that eat up time. Anyway, you don't get to question your manager (much).
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,967 posts, read 8,410,669 times
Reputation: 15556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida2014 View Post
I'm talking about a manager of a team, not a CEO level who is in charge of hundreds/thousands of employees. But nice attempt at snark, I like it!
I am not talking CEO level. I am talking about one level above team lead. This might be the manager of a small business services office. AR and AP people are going to have different specialties, the treasury person does a different thing, the accountants have yet another role. The budgeting people are going to be using different software from everybody else. These people ultimately report to a CFO, but the middle management is going to encompass many roles.
Quote:
I've been a manager and AM a manager, so I have a VERY realistic and wide view of what it takes to be a successful one. Knowing how to answer basic questions about your team, tasks and what the roles are below you are essential to being a well-rounded manager. Knowing how to train someone reporting to you is important too.
Basic question? Yes. Tasks and roles? Yes. How to train, yes, in broad brushstrokes. Lots of offices use specialized equipment. Think of a slightly technical house. Does everybody in the house know how to program the thermostat, use all the remotes, set up the printer to be used wirelessly, what pressure the tires on every vehicle should be, how to mix the oil/gas mixture for the lawn equipment, how to change the time on every clock, etc.

Obviously not, and businesses are more complex than houses. Each role will develop specialties where the manager will not know the details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
They must be willing to help, though. Let's say someone manages bus drivers, mechanics and cleaning staff. Let's say there's an accident on the job that requires overtime by the mechanics and cleaning staff. If that manager sits back and lets them work extra without offering to help because it's "not in a manager's job description" then they are a poor manager. They won't know how to do everything, but they need to have a functional knowledge of what the people directly under them do, and need to have a willingness to step in if needed.
Yes, but their help will be different. Let’s say a roof collapses under snow load and damages 4 buses that are needed for tomorrow’s routes.

Maintenance is shutting off HVAC systems and making sure electrical services are safe. Mechanics are putting in hours to get other buses ready for the morning, and cleaning staff is making sure they are serviceable.

The manager is making sure union rules (if any) are followed for overtime; contacting the insurance company; contacting nearby bus companies and arranging for a lease of equipment; buying the team dinner to keep morale up as people work all night; making a decision on which buses to fix first and working out service schedules for the smaller bus fleet; talking to the reporter who shows up; getting a structural engineer in the area down to determine whether the building is safe to work in or nearby; and generally doing all the stuff needed to keep the mechanics turning wrenches.

The manager will be allocating resources, determining budget impact and how to get the funds,

Quote:
Often a good manager stepping in is asking their team how they can help, what roadblocks they can get out of the way. We should never be the kind of manager who philosophically say they won't help with the tasks because it's not a manager's job.
I agree entirely. Add that a good manager will anticipate some of these issues before the team is even aware of them.

None of that means that a good manager needs to be a competent diesel mechanic. The manager needs to know what a diesel mechanic needs.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:50 PM
 
1,691 posts, read 553,258 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
The manager is making sure union rules (if any) are followed for overtime; contacting the insurance company; contacting nearby bus companies and arranging for a lease of equipment; buying the team dinner to keep morale up as people work all night; making a decision on which buses to fix first and working out service schedules for the smaller bus fleet; talking to the reporter who shows up; getting a structural engineer in the area down to determine whether the building is safe to work in or nearby; and generally doing all the stuff needed to keep the mechanics turning wrenches.
You're really missing a big part of good management. If what's needed most is people to help scrub floors and do maintenance on busses, that's what the manager should help with. A manager who is only doing what you're describing when that's not the need, when the need is more people actually fixing a bus is a bad manager.

If there's maintenance to do on a bus and people are putting in overtime to do it, and a manager is talking to insurance companies, or doing something else administrative that could wait until the crisis is over, that's a poor manager, and one of the ones who gives managers a bad name of being ineffective and out of touch.

Buying a team dinner while talking to a reporter doesn't help team morale. Asking the team what you can do to help them in an emergency when they are slammed is what picks up morale. On occasion that does mean picking up a wrench. Fairly often managers invent work that isn't needed because they "shouldn't" be doing the same work as the people under them, especially in busy times/times of crisis.

Last edited by Lekrii; 05-21-2019 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:46 AM
 
8,977 posts, read 8,109,767 times
Reputation: 19497
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameridreamNoT View Post
Delegation is good...when there are enough people in the team to do the work. If there is a shortage in staff, managers should also roll their sleeves up and do the work to share the load. In the end, if the results aren't in, the manager is ultimately held responsible. The employees will also be accountable.

It is very apparent you have no idea of what duties your manager is doing to fill their time you know nothing about. It is very probable to do their own job/duties, they do not have the time to roll their sleeves up and do their old job.

I learned a long time ago, as you get promoted up the ladder, their were duties I never suspected the manager had to do to fill up their day. They may have to spend time solving problems, they no longer have the time to help do their former job. In fact, they may be forbidden by the company to do so, as it would interfere with their own duties as a manager.

AND the new manager does not control hiring his/her replacement. The decision to hire, is made above their pay grade.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:12 AM
 
4,079 posts, read 2,947,788 times
Reputation: 7081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
You're really missing a big part of good management. If what's needed most is people to help scrub floors and do maintenance on busses, that's what the manager should help with. A manager who is only doing what you're describing when that's not the need, when the need is more people actually fixing a bus is a bad manager.

If there's maintenance to do on a bus and people are putting in overtime to do it, and a manager is talking to insurance companies, or doing something else administrative that could wait until the crisis is over, that's a poor manager, and one of the ones who gives managers a bad name of being ineffective and out of touch.

Buying a team dinner while talking to a reporter doesn't help team morale. Asking the team what you can do to help them in an emergency when they are slammed is what picks up morale. On occasion that does mean picking up a wrench. Fairly often managers invent work that isn't needed because they "shouldn't" be doing the same work as the people under them, especially in busy times/times of crisis.
Totally agree. As another analogy, if you watch Deadliest Catch every single ship captain knows the ins and outs of what their crew are tasked to do and can step in and do those jobs themselves if needed. From baiting the pots to the engineering of the boat. I would not want to step on a crab boat with a captain who simply delegated everything without knowing the exact ins and outs of the positions he's responsible for yet only knew how to steer the boat and where to fish.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:29 AM
 
657 posts, read 315,626 times
Reputation: 1386
I recall an obviously inebriated customer came in to the store wanting to get a job as the Manager because “they don’t do nuthin”. I gladly handed him my badge.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
1,701 posts, read 753,840 times
Reputation: 4214
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown00 View Post
His reasoning = I'm a manager now, I need to manage which is delegating. I quote "I'm not suppose to do any of the individual contributor role tasks anymore so I'm passing it along"
That's how work works.


Where I worked, when claim reps got promoted to supervisor their open claims got re-assigned to the rest of us.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,711 posts, read 70,579,935 times
Reputation: 76686
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp61616 View Post
The first corporation I worked at, a guy was promoted to management operations. After that he just walked around, told jokes, drank coffee, reviewed new albums he had heard, and if somebody was sick he penciled in a replacement and had them come in and cover. That's it. That's all he did, for years. I could not understand it, but then I had never worked in a corporation before. So in your case, it might be true. Maybe he is management now and does not have to do the old work.
This sounds like a supervisor I had, but not corporate: higher ed. He liked to chat with students, tell jokes, etc. His idea of supervising was to micro-manage the staff, which drove everyone crazy, and resulted in frequent job turnover for awhile. At some point, he got the idea that I was slacking, and started delegating parts of his job to me. This gave him even more time to wander around, chatting with students, and being social. He'd also spend his first half-hour of each day with his door closed, changing from his bike clothes to his work clothes. At some point, the faculty noticed he didn't seem to have much work to do, so his job got cut in half.

Seriously, how dumb can you get? Undermining your own job. He deserved it, though.
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