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Old 06-02-2019, 02:42 PM
 
1,608 posts, read 420,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
I frankly don't know why someone would want to become "senior" in an at-will roll rather than start their own company or jump over to federal govt jobs or move to someplace with significantly greater employee protection. In my mind the whole idea behind becoming "senior" is that I can mouth off a bit and slack off here and there because I have earned it, but thats not the case in the USA so I dont know why people continue on this long in at-will rolls.
At-will has zero to do with any of this. I don't know why people like to mention At-Will for in these conversations, it is meaningless. If management wants you gone, you are gone, At-Will is no real protection.

You want to become senior so you continue to grow. That's like saying you never want to be a senior in high school, just stay a junior.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:46 PM
 
1,608 posts, read 420,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Not everyone wants the stress and hassle to start their own business. Government jobs are just as bad, if not worse, than private sector jobs for what the OP is complaining about. Some place with greater employee protection can also protect the bad employees if they play the office politics well. Senior is more than time in the company. It’s also about knowledge and experience.
Government jobs are low paying and largely full of people who couldn't be employed elsewhere. I know, because I worked for a company that came in and did the real work while the government employees didn't do anything, and with good reason, cause they didn't know anything. I never had a conversation with any of them where I was impressed with their knowledge outside of how the politics of their location worked.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:47 PM
 
3,790 posts, read 2,149,131 times
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Many companies growing has STOPPED. Internal career growth has stopped. . You become "senior" or otherwise expensive, your days are already numbered. You WILL be laid off most likely by most companies these days.


What happens is, you are stuck in the same position forever now. Basically what you were hired on to do years ago, you're pigeonholed into that role especially if you're among the best in that role. You know because... People are incapable of learning anything new after college. ROFLMAO.

Some people want to grow into other roles or take a new avenue with the company, the company prevents it from happening. Ive seen this happen way too many times to count.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:47 PM
 
1,608 posts, read 420,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post

The at-will culture in the USA is what produces all the stress.
No, I think it is people who continue posting and saying "at-will" that causes stress.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:52 PM
 
3,790 posts, read 2,149,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Government jobs are low paying and largely full of people who couldn't be employed elsewhere. I know, because I worked for a company that came in and did the real work while the government employees didn't do anything, and with good reason, cause they didn't know anything. I never had a conversation with any of them where I was impressed with their knowledge outside of how the politics of their location worked.
Well at least they have job security. You can break your back in the private sector and be thrown out on the street in a heartbeat once you become too expensive or someone higher up wants you gone (not in any way tied to performance) or the idiots who are running the company run it into the ground completely and they have to close doors.
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Old 06-02-2019, 04:00 PM
 
7,051 posts, read 3,916,143 times
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Hah! Dozens of responses and no one has asked the OP why he posted a question with no specifics. It seems like every few days everyone needs an excuse to rehash their own experiences, fears and warnings about the evil employers.

If the OP does happen back perhaps he would tell us more about the situation. Is he their boss? Do they produce good work, on time and at the rate required? Does he? Or are they slackers whose shortcomings become the responsibility of the OP? Is the problem they won't answer the phone at all or they actually pick up a call or two before eight o'clock, after five or while they're having coffee?
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,565 posts, read 3,680,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Government jobs are low paying and largely full of people who couldn't be employed elsewhere. I know, because I worked for a company that came in and did the real work while the government employees didn't do anything, and with good reason, cause they didn't know anything. I never had a conversation with any of them where I was impressed with their knowledge outside of how the politics of their location worked.
And which department was this? And what were you doing?

The only difference between "dumb" public sector employees and private sector employees is simple: does the looming "profit motive" irritate you? I know I did not want to work somewhere where all that mattered was money and every quarter having exponential growth, it was about providing a service. So I went public sector and didn't look back. Plenty of smart people work in the government. You should go see NASA sometime, or the CIA. You think they are hiring dumb people in those agencies? I'd rather suffer financially than hate who my responsibilities and the reasons why for 8+ hours a day 5 days a week.

I think many scientists (as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread) and many other positions feel the same way. They want to conduct experiments to further advance the knowledge of how and why things work a certain way. Not about what makes my boss more money. Just a casual reminder that the Internet you are using came from the government, so just remember that when you are typing a response to me. I don't think someone without knowledge could've invented the Internet.

I will give you one thing though is that government departments do NOT know IT, software maintenance, and database management. So if that's what you were doing, I'm glad they contracted out to you. They knew better than to stay internally. They're better with other equipment maintenance, like vehicles and so forth, but something like GIS, SPSS or computers in general is just better outside.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Location: Happy Place
3,712 posts, read 1,895,843 times
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The last year or so of my federal employment, I didn't throw my weight around, but knowing my retirement was set in stone, I simply did things my way much to the confusion of my supervisor.

The "we've always done it this way" didn't wash with me. Lots of wasted money on needless office items, overpriced professional texts purchased with govt discount, lots of stuff like that.

They were probably glad I retired so they could get back to doing it the way it was always done.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:41 PM
 
6,942 posts, read 3,094,991 times
Reputation: 4425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Berkeley labs has only maybe a dozen or so DOE employees for oversight. The actual work is not done by DOE employees.

I am good at what I do. I'm not worried about losing a job. I was laid off a few years ago and had my first phone interview two days after I was laid off. Focus on keeping your skills relevant, keep your network up to date, and you won't worry about employment. Measuring performance isn't hard. It is dependent on what your boss/company expects, but it's not hard to put yourself in their shoes and think about what they want.

One of the bigger frustrations on a job is working with lazy or apathetic people, who are just there for a paycheck, and nothing more. Yes, working with the people who need a job with 100% job security by something other than their own skill is very frustrating. No thank you.
The label is not really relavent as far as DOE. There is functionally no difference between a “DOE employee” and contractors so long as the contractors are contracted by name. The contracts rarely lose funding and as long as your job is not subject to a petty functionary middle man contractor agency who is able to move people around and out then you are good. If you are not called out by name on the contracts then it’s not even worth taking unless you live right there and have nothing better to do.
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Old 06-02-2019, 09:03 PM
 
1,749 posts, read 576,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
The label is not really relavent as far as DOE. There is functionally no difference between a “DOE employee” and contractors so long as the contractors are contracted by name. The contracts rarely lose funding and as long as your job is not subject to a petty functionary middle man contractor agency who is able to move people around and out then you are good. If you are not called out by name on the contracts then it’s not even worth taking unless you live right there and have nothing better to do.
People working for the lab you mentioned are not DOE employees. They are subject to the rules/regulations of the university. You claimed the DOE has innovated, then gave the name of a university lab as your example. It's the university innovating, not the DOE.

It's fine if you personally would take stability in your job at the expense of working with competent co-workers. Many people aren't interested in that deal. You don't seem to want to hear that people might feel differently than you do. Working with people who are looking to protect their own paycheck above anything else (and will overlook bad co-workers, among other things in the process) is not something I am interested in. That kind of thinking is shortsighted, and often causes more harm than good.

We feel differently about this. That's fine. We can agree to disagree here.

Last edited by Lekrii; 06-02-2019 at 09:14 PM..
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