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Old 06-02-2019, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,222 posts, read 8,518,332 times
Reputation: 35617

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
One reason that women who work at presenting themselves as sexy may not experience what goes on as harassment is that they are seeking this response.

Years ago, I worked at an agency where one of the women wore high-heeled, backless sandals and low-cut sundresses to work. Clip-clip-clip-clip-clip. You could hear her coming a building away.

Male supervisors and co-workers would peer down as she constantly readjusted the straps on her sundresses. What she viewed as flirty fun between her and any man within sight, the rest of viewed as inappropriate workplace interactions.

Some of the guys tried this with everyone. The rest of us just put up with it. What could you do? She's the only person who welcomed it, thought nothing of it.
Oh my - high heeled slingback shoes! The very height of naughtiness (no pun intended) and clickety clack to build up the anticipation...I do wonder how low cut those sundresses were.

But I'd be more interested to hear about the actual comments. This kind of thing, on the entire continuum is pretty mild. If she didn't benefit materially from her clothing choices and banter then it is unclear how inappropriate it was unless there was vulgar language and behavior occurring that was overheard and seen by others.

 
Old 06-02-2019, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,222 posts, read 8,518,332 times
Reputation: 35617
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Heck the training I went though was that basically your mere existence as a male was sufficient to be harassment. What was most interesting was how the females in the class were embarrassed and apologized to the males for how over the top the class was.

The real backlash that is hurting all women is today I try to avoid any situation where I will be alone with a woman, where I have to work on a project with a woman, mentor a woman, or anything else. A few weeks ago a woman asked if I'd help find something in the storeroom. A simple request, one I'd done many times with various coworkers. Then I realized we were the only ones back there and all I could think about was how simply being alone in the storeroom with her could go wrong in so many ways and how could I get out of there as quickly as possible.
You either had some really poor instructions/instructors or misinterpreted what you could and couldn't do. There are very few situations where you actually need to be alone with any employee. If you can't be a bit creative and mentor someone in a break area, cafeteria, or open-door room then I don't think you have any value to offer. You're causing yourself undue stress but it's your life.
 
Old 06-02-2019, 10:00 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,623 posts, read 70,508,089 times
Reputation: 76608
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolovefromANFIELD View Post
Huh. I wonder why is it almost always the "non-beautiful" and "non-sexy" that have experienced it, or have seen it?
Because it's about power, not looks. Mod cut. It can happen to anyone.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 06-03-2019 at 06:09 PM.. Reason: Rude.
 
Old 06-02-2019, 10:02 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,623 posts, read 70,508,089 times
Reputation: 76608
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
At least according to the sexual harassment training HR put me through a half dozen times over the years, your definition is far too narrow. It’s not just an abuse of power. You can sexually harass a peer.
I didn't limit it to non-peer situations. I was very clear at one point, saying "whether a superior or not".
 
Old 06-02-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,623 posts, read 70,508,089 times
Reputation: 76608
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Heck the training I went though was that basically your mere existence as a male was sufficient to be harassment. What was most interesting was how the females in the class were embarrassed and apologized to the males for how over the top the class was.

The real backlash that is hurting all women is today I try to avoid any situation where I will be alone with a woman, where I have to work on a project with a woman, mentor a woman, or anything else. A few weeks ago a woman asked if I'd help find something in the storeroom. A simple request, one I'd done many times with various coworkers. Then I realized we were the only ones back there and all I could think about was how simply being alone in the storeroom with her could go wrong in so many ways and how could I get out of there as quickly as possible.
k What could go wrong? This is BS. As to being alone with a woman in an office, what about the annual performance evaluation? I guess women won't be able to have annual performance evals anymore, unless they have a female boss? Oh, wait, I have a solution! Businesses can all have a special office installed in each division, that has a big window across the front, by the door, so that performance evals and other one-on-one meetings can be held in the glass room. There will still be audio privacy, but total transparency!

Such nonsense.
 
Old 06-02-2019, 10:23 AM
 
5,461 posts, read 2,922,392 times
Reputation: 24517
Quote:
Originally Posted by pretty but odd View Post
The media tells us that most women will experience sexual harassment at the office. .
Yes, most women do. It is often subtle. And completely inappropriate.

I have had a Supervisor walk pass me as I was sitting down with my legs crosses, "great legs" he says.
Same one, "You look great in that dress".

Both--completely inappropriate in the workplace.

Had another one tell an inappropriate joke. I have known him for 18 years, we are friends. I just looked at him. He realized his mistake and apologized. What made him think it was going to be okay?

Had another young man from another department stalk me in the mornings for a few months. He first just said hi, then it went to touching my shoulders, to kissing my head. I started going another way, sometimes I would see still see him and be deliberate to go another direction when he saw me. He got the hint and finally let me alone. A couple of weeks before I had told a Manager I was having a creepy guy stalk me--he asked me if I had told him I was uncomfortable. &^%$ I was shocked by his response.

I shared ^ that story with my husband one day when the whole "me too" was in the forefront of the News. He was shocked. I told him women have to put up with this crap all the time.

Note, I am 61--it never stops. Stupid stuff I should not have to put up with.
 
Old 06-02-2019, 10:24 AM
 
20,551 posts, read 16,619,414 times
Reputation: 38581
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Kind of a funny thing. A few years ago I shared an office with a woman. She was highly educated, on the management fast track. Well thought of by all the senor management. Yet she cursed more and worse than any I'd experienced during my military career. Very first phone call I heard her make went something like this: They'd better not GD eff up whatever it was or she would effing eff the GD effing M-effers for effing with her. And it continued that way the whole time I worked with her until she got a promotion and moved. If it were the other way around, I'd be hit with creating a hostile work environment.
Back then you wouldn’t have. Today she would be too.
 
Old 06-02-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: NY
26 posts, read 4,855 times
Reputation: 52
How unfortunate that a person cannot make a living solely based simply on their talents, skills and/or knowledge, rather than being subjected to an either or else scenario.

The leverage some of these predators hold over their victims is pressing bills don't pay themselves or go away.The saddest cases are those leaving the victims with no recourse to rectify the abuse.
 
Old 06-02-2019, 12:14 PM
 
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
1,467 posts, read 1,131,970 times
Reputation: 2970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Because it's about power, not looks. Duh. It can happen to anyone.
I don't disagree that it can happen to anyone or that it's about power. I'm simply saying certain subset of women find it offensive, just as certain subset of men complain how they can't get women to date them.

Ironic thing is, since the beginning of time men chased power, because in part it allowed them selection of better mates, while women looked to men of power, because in part it allowed them a more secure life for themselves and their off-springs.

So, we should just abandon all that, because you know, equality, right?
 
Old 06-02-2019, 12:15 PM
 
20,551 posts, read 16,619,414 times
Reputation: 38581
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an Ford View Post
How unfortunate that a person cannot make a living solely based simply on their talents, skills and/or knowledge, rather than being subjected to an either or else scenario.

The leverage some of these predators hold over their victims is pressing bills don't pay themselves or go away.The saddest cases are those leaving the victims with no recourse to rectify the abuse.
And the attitude of a couple of (I assume) men stating that coming out with our stories and laws to protect us are going to hurt us, that we need to be protected from our desire to be treated as you stated, is no different than the attitudes of days gone by, i.e. “If you want a career, you’ll just shut up about it and not complain”. That is precisely why women didn’t go to anyone then, and they think we should want to go back to that.

We do everything in extremes in this country, and I can admit some of these rules are going overboard (just as they went from “you can give out pain meds like candy” to now people in legit pain can’t get them. It doesn’t mean we don’t have to or shouldnt address it though.
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