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Old 06-03-2019, 12:54 PM
 
1,828 posts, read 739,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
I honestly don't know how working parents manage to do it without flexible jobs. I run a business but if I need to take a half day or full day off, I can.
I work in the family business and despite the low pay, the freedom to do what I want without consequences is why I'm still there.

I don't know how parents who start new jobs can talk their boss into a flexible schedule. I'd feel crummy about it, like I was lazy (which I definitely am not).
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:32 PM
 
3,721 posts, read 3,918,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
Butt out. That's my advice. It's not your problem to deal with.



Except when it causes others to pick up the slack.
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:44 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,132 posts, read 34,624,910 times
Reputation: 16209
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Have any actual, you know, facts to support this claim?

I already know the answer is no because you have no credibility on any topic related to women in the workplace based on your use of the term "females" to describe women.
I am a 60 year old woman who has seen and experienced for myself, the problems working along side of women with children. And most women with children do not deserve equal pay to the men doing the same job.

The worst work experience was with a woman who had to disappear into the bathroom multiple times during the day to pump her breast milk. And she didn't punch out and back in the time clock, and didn't offer to stay later to make up for her multiple milking breasts. And I didn't object to the multiple milking breaks, I just thought it unfair that she was on the clock while doing so. She never thanked her co-workers for having to cover her work station for her as she thought herself entitled to their accommodation.

I have always preferred male co-workers and managers.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:30 PM
 
1,605 posts, read 1,483,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
This ^^^ is why I didn't return to work after having children. My husband was in a high pressure and demanding job without flexibility. He traveled anywhere from 30% to 50% of the week for business. Someone had to be available for sick children, school holidays and half days, etc.
This was me too. My husband traveled internationally for work on a regular basis and his schedule was unpredictable at best. We had no family around (not that it was their problem anyways) and I realized pretty quickly that all the things you mention in your post were going to be my problem too. I chose to stay home. The good part was I got to volunteer frequently for all kinds of things and I was there for all the field trips, school parties, plays, games, all the stuff. It took the sting out of not having that second income because we sure could have used it.

Fast forward the years until now and my husband advanced and has a much more flexible schedule even though he still travels. He works from home a day a week and a week a month. Those kids from the early days are in college, but we now have a 3 year old and I am able to run a business that I can do mostly from home.

Oddly enough, my best and most punctual workers have small children
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:02 PM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,463 posts, read 14,307,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sas318 View Post
I don't know how parents who start new jobs can talk their boss into a flexible schedule. I'd feel crummy about it, like I was lazy (which I definitely am not).
Flex scheduling doesn't mean you do less work, it simply means you shift when, and sometimes where, you do that work. My flex schedule still committed me to a forty hour workweek. If I took a two hour lunch to go to a school related event I made it up by coming in for two hours on a Saturday. It wasn't uncommon for me to only have one full day off in a week. Flex scheduling doesn't inconvenience others if it's done right.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
9,572 posts, read 10,308,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Flex scheduling doesn't mean you do less work, it simply means you shift when, and sometimes where, you do that work. My flex schedule still committed me to a forty hour workweek. If I took a two hour lunch to go to a school related event I made it up by coming in for two hours on a Saturday. It wasn't uncommon for me to only have one full day off in a week. Flex scheduling doesn't inconvenience others if it's done right.

Agreed. I have a career that allows flex scheduling. It doesn't mean I work any less. That 1-2 hours in the AM I need to take off to take a kid to the Dr is made up when I have a conference call with asia from 8-10PM that same night, or doing a few hours of work on a Saturday instead. That sort of stuff is not visible to my coworkers who see me roll in at 9AM every single day...but my boss knows what i'm doing and that's all that matters.

My wife needs to be at work early, so that means all the AM routine is done by myself for 3 kids. It's tough getting out the door sometimes...
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Pittsford, NY
518 posts, read 624,678 times
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All I know is I am male, but when we had our two kids I had days I had to take extra time and so on. I always did more than my share at work, but I sure resented the boss I had who would look (and seemingly make mental notes) if I came late or went early due to kids on that particular day. Was a real total loser of a boss and total loser as a person looking at that stuff because I did more than he ever did his whole life of monitoring what people did and so on.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:12 AM
 
6,261 posts, read 3,456,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
All I know is I am male, but when we had our two kids I had days I had to take extra time and so on. I always did more than my share at work, but I sure resented the boss I had who would look (and seemingly make mental notes) if I came late or went early due to kids on that particular day. Was a real total loser of a boss and total loser as a person looking at that stuff because I did more than he ever did his whole life of monitoring what people did and so on.
And it’s not just male bosses. I’ve had women bosses - childless, grown children and “super women” (the kind who do everything including sending emails at 2am) who also frowned upon anyone leaving early or coming in late due to child issues.

I also had a gay male boss who sent me on the road a lot when my kids were very little, which put a lot of stress on my family. He had the personal view that as he had a cat as a dependent it was a similar situation - until I reminded him that unlike with a cat, Child Protective Services will come and take your kids if you leave them alone. I ended up changing departments shortly afterward.

People make a decision to have children, and should realize that it can and does impact your career, at least in the early years. Hopefully a family is more important than climbing the corporate ladder.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
268 posts, read 715,478 times
Reputation: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I am a 60 year old woman who has seen and experienced for myself, the problems working along side of women with children. And most women with children do not deserve equal pay to the men doing the same job.

The worst work experience was with a woman who had to disappear into the bathroom multiple times during the day to pump her breast milk. And she didn't punch out and back in the time clock, and didn't offer to stay later to make up for her multiple milking breasts. And I didn't object to the multiple milking breaks, I just thought it unfair that she was on the clock while doing so. She never thanked her co-workers for having to cover her work station for her as she thought herself entitled to their accommodation.

I have always preferred male co-workers and managers.
Are you serious? Women taking time to pump breastmilk for a "reasonable time" is covered by federal law. It's a right - she actually is "entitled" to it. And yes, a reasonable time is up to 30 minutes every 2-3 hours. It is not an option to pump - it's a medical necessity. If new mothers DON'T take the time to pump or breastfeed, they'll end up with mastitis, an infection that causes high fever, abscesses, and sometimes hospitalization. It's not like your co-worker was lounging around in a hammock smoking a cigarette on her breaks.

If your employer wasn't hassling her about clocking in and out, why are you? Why do you think that she has to stay late (meaning that she'd probably incur late fees from daycare) to make up for the time that she was hooked up to a breast pump out of necessity?

Breastfeeding is a temporary state and necessitates temporary accommodations. I am honestly shocked at the complete lack of empathy for other human beings I'm seeing from some on this thread. Does that same selfishness extend to other forms of workplace accommodation? What if someone has multiple sclerosis and needs additional breaks? What about someone with vision problems who can't stare at a screen for more than and hour or two at a time? Would we complain about a co-worker with cancer who needs to take significant time off for chemotherapy and recovery? This is why the US is full of overworked and miserable people... we're so quick to think of people as employees before thinking of them as human beings.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Where rhotic consonants are either absent or intrusive
8,902 posts, read 5,233,865 times
Reputation: 14597
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
I honestly don't know how working parents manage to do it without flexible jobs. I run a business but if I need to take a half day or full day off, I can. My husband has a certain number of hours he's expected to work each week but can make up time on a Saturday or extend it to the next week if he needs to. Even with two teenagers, we use that flexibility. Orthodontic appointments, bringing this one to an activity, someone is sick and needs to see a doctor on short notice or needs to meet with a specialist who is 90 miles away... it's constant. It was even more crazy the one year they were in school (we homeschool, but they went to school one year). One fell off the jungle gym and has a lump on her head and needs to be picked up early, the other one threw up as we were about to get in the car to drive to school, this one's class is putting on a play on a Wednesday morning, that one's class has a science exhibit at noon on a Friday, they're having a Thanksgiving lunch and families are invited, there's a parent-and-me sports day... neverending! I managed most of those issues because my work is more flexible, and it was very difficult. I truly don't know what people do if they have to work Monday through Friday from 8:30 to 5:00 and these things come up. The children at the school they attended had mostly SAHMs (which, I assume, contributed to the daytime family activities).

So yeah, I'd assume it's legit. Kids, even kids in school, are not known for getting sick at convenient times, and parents do generally try to attend their children's class events and sports games and class plays. "Only" three kids, OMG. I often felt like a chicken with no head and I only have two! One more increases the work exponentially.

Unfortunately, if both parents (if there are both parents) are working full-time jobs with no flexibility, then they need to make a choice. Someone needs to be available for the hundreds of things that come up with children. Whether that means one of them (probably mom in this situation, based on the mom being the one who is running late) needs to get a more flexible job or one of them needs to stay home or they need to talk to their bosses about managing their hours so one can go in earlier and take the kids to afternoon activities while the other goes in later and deals with morning activities or whatever. If it's negatively impacting the office, then the mom needs to decide what she's going to do to fix the problem... if she can't, then it's up to the boss to decide what he or she is going to do to fix the problem.

I'm assuming, of course, that it is an actual problem and not that you're just complaining for no reason. People can negotiate whatever they want to with their bosses, of course. So maybe she's already talked to the boss and has gotten the okay for flex time. Even making more money... some people are better negotiators than others. If it's not a problem for the company and for the boss, then there's no issue. If she's increasing your workload due to her habits, then you should talk to the boss about it and see what his/her suggestions might be for evening things up in that respect.
I am really fortunate that, although my schedule is not flexible, my workplace is staffed almost entirely by women who caregivers. Whether it's young children, elderly parents, or chronically ill spouse; the majority of us are primary caregivers outside of work. Which is great, because there is no side-eye when those responsibilities interfere with work; so long as we have the PTO to cover it and try to schedule obligations in advance as much as possible, it's all good.
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