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Old 06-06-2019, 12:15 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 1,495,177 times
Reputation: 817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
These companies kill themselves the way they do it now. I am retired but 5 years ago a company ran an ad for a position. I had done the exact thing using same software (not IT stuff but hardware oriented stuff) even with same experience in the medical radioactivity measurements it involved. I could have written the whole thing in 1 to 3 months. I never even got a call since I am so specialized and not exactly right out of college, but my area included the exact thing they needed. I did meet at a trade show the guy they hired, he had no idea what he was doing even after months at the job. I asked him a couple basic questions and he clearly didn't understand the science needed to do the project yet. It would take the guy two years to get up to speed then learn how to write it. Ok, they wanted a non specialized person they got it but I bet that project died by the time they got it ready to sell. No idea really but it is just surprising how things have gotten so odd at corporations. They want low cost, non educated, young - then they will instruct. Ok maybe sometimes that works, but you think they would want to look at all angles including somebody who could do it from the get go but no they don't want that. They want untrained and no skill sets.

This study is based on Japanese trends, but since the late 1990's, American corporations have been copying Japanese counterparts in "team work" instead of individual achievements, and other HR BS.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/37b...4671a9d353.pdf
“We place a priority on instilling our corporate values in employees, and new graduates more smoothly and readily absorb these values,” and “Experienced employees are able to carry out tasks competently, but it creates problems when their criteria for decision-making on the job differ from our own. With new graduates, we can have senior employees or supervisors convey the company’s point of view to them as needed, and they naturally get a sense of the decision-making criteria we employ.” These observations reflect precisely the mindset described in the “white cloth” analogy.
By contrast, hiring of mid-career human resources has sharply declined since the
global financial crisis of 2008.
So, probably i have to wait 20% of my lifetime until these morons realize that they need real experts and their "HR-created experts" are not experts at all.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,616 posts, read 3,037,542 times
Reputation: 12862
Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
I think it's the opposite.
And I think you're wrong on both points. Companies today that need higher and higher levels of experience tend to hire into those positions from the pool of people that someone else (including the candidate him or herself) expensively trained. Not that there's not some growth, and that grass-green new employees aren't trained in company procedures, but I think the model of hiring a sprout and growing him into a tree is a vanishing and rare thing these days.

Companies want workers that meet minimum qualifications for each position, are as cheap as possible and so completely replaceable they don't need to learn their first names. This is the new, lean, sigma-whatever, profit-centric model that's become nearly universal.

As for qualification levels, why would you expect a call if you have only half the qualifications? And get back to us when you're applying for positions with a skill and experience set considerably past the listed bullet points. You'll have time, because you'll never hear back on a one.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:37 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 1,495,177 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
As for qualification levels, why would you expect a call if you have only half the qualifications? And get back to us when you're applying for positions with a skill and experience set considerably past the listed bullet points. You'll have time, because you'll never hear back on a one.
agin, it was the other way around. the job skill requirements list had half my skills, so it should have been easy, but still they said i dont meet minimum qual.
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Old 06-06-2019, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,616 posts, read 3,037,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
agin, it was the other way around. the job skill requirements list had half my skills, so it should have been easy, but still they said i dont meet minimum qual.
I misread you.

See the several discussions about automated job screening and the plentiful evidence that most applicants never make it to human eyes. You might have had the qualifications, but you didn't get every single keyword exactly right and in the right place. You lose.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:06 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 1,495,177 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I misread you.

See the several discussions about automated job screening and the plentiful evidence that most applicants never make it to human eyes. You might have had the qualifications, but you didn't get every single keyword exactly right and in the right place. You lose.
again, it was the other way around. LOL.
Even if an HR person sees it, they still do exact keyword matching, just like a 10-line c-program would do. I was arguing with an HR screening person (for another job) about one of the keywords being there by mistake, but he insisted that is the most important requirement, even though it seemed like an odd one out. Anyone working in the field would have told him that.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,616 posts, read 3,037,542 times
Reputation: 12862
Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
again, it was the other way around. LOL.
Okayyyy... which was it? You had extra qualifications or not enough?

Quote:
Even if an HR person sees it, they still do exact keyword matching, just like a 10-line c-program would do. I was arguing with an HR screening person (for another job) about one of the keywords being there by mistake, but he insisted that is the most important requirement, even though it seemed like an odd one out. Anyone working in the field would have told him that.
In my field, if a human looks at my resume, they're very likely to call me, even if five minutes shows I'm not a good match. But I don't work in a field with a long, rigid list of specific qualifications (like ten bullet points of years with each programming language or system).

Which means I have no hope of getting my screening keywords right, since the job listing and the resume can have quite a bit of variation even when they're a solid match. It takes better AI to parse than keyword counting or term matching. You know, a human.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:58 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 1,495,177 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Okayyyy... which was it? You had extra qualifications or not enough?
.
I had 2x the qualifications.
I meant that it was not because an automated software, but humans do the keyword matching too.


I worked in 3 product types or industries, but the core engineering work was the same. Some keywords differ between them, but those can be learned in a day or less. Now I started applying in another industry segment again. The one I'm in will have slowdown and layoffs next year.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:19 AM
 
265 posts, read 107,616 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianRo View Post
Lousy management, lousy people becoming managers (Seems like most people who become managers are the worst choices to become managers) and the fact we have become a shallow, superficial society, where being the "right cultural fit" (AKA good drinking buddy) is more important than bringing skills and value to a company. Most managers back in the day, understood the value of skilled people with great work ethics and realized they did NOT grow on trees. This is no longer the case as we have ended a post-ethic crony system where skills no longer matter and companies get ran into the ground.

Companies think they can just skate by with a limited workforce and little no experience and that they can throw just ANYONE into positions of authority and Jobs that require skills, but they are beginning to realize this doesn't work. Now more people are clamoring for skills, and they play hot potato with the same old employees, but these people won't be around forever and there is no knowledge transfer and training to the new generation of workers.

Listen to all the horror stories at most places now. You can hardly find a good employer to work for these days or a good manager.
What caused this to happen and what can be done about it?
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,616 posts, read 3,037,542 times
Reputation: 12862
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm4256 View Post
What caused this to happen and what can be done about it?
In a nutshell, focus on the bottom line and shareholder returns as isolated goals, and the rise of a dozen super-scientific validations of corporate culture that rewards that focus.

We're back to a pre-Taylor regard of workers as replaceable engines driving factory profits, and all else is just soft-minded bushwah getting in the way of, you know, the money.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:43 AM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,524 posts, read 3,654,679 times
Reputation: 19552
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
These companies kill themselves the way they do it now. I am retired but 5 years ago a company ran an ad for a position. I had done the exact thing using same software (not IT stuff but hardware oriented stuff) even with same experience in the medical radioactivity measurements it involved. I could have written the whole thing in 1 to 3 months. I never even got a call since I am so specialized and not exactly right out of college, but my area included the exact thing they needed..
If you were that perfect of a fit, you should have called them instead of waiting for them to call you. It might have made a difference? Or at least, re-send your resume to them.
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