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Old 06-08-2019, 12:17 AM
 
1,222 posts, read 1,492,738 times
Reputation: 817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Depending on the kind of company and work, training can be very expensive and they need people to help others get the job done so they are trained properly. If you know how to do a job well, but you don't help anyone else improve, then you aren't as valued as someone who does both. Is this a surprise to you?
.
Not both. read again.

"At our company, a manager announced that people will not be judged based on how well they do their job at all, rather based on only how they help others with their work."
De facto devalued skillsets. That is seriously wrong.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:13 AM
 
3,605 posts, read 1,556,409 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
Why have larger corporations devalued skill sets?
Having the skill set and being an expert does not give you more than 1% chance of getting a job.
Not having most of the skill set might get you the job anyway.
The 2 sentences combined above means that people with the skill set and people without the skill set have equal chance of getting the job.

Every job posting has a list of skills, but when they are hiring or promoting or not firing someone, there is a lot more emphasis (like 100 to 1) on other things. Sometimes they express their resentment towards anyone who dares to refer to their skills or achievements. At our company, a manager announced that people will not be judged based on how well they do their job at all, rather based on only how they help others with their work.

For example when they say they are looking for communication skills, they are implying that you don't have communication skills, even though you do. You know you do, people you know told you you do. It is a euphemism to cover up something that they would rather not say.
Sometimes HR, other times managers do this.
Some simple jobs can be trained to anyone with an IQ above 85, but some others can only be learned be very talented and dedicated people. So the expectation to hire based on whatever fancy criteria and then teach the guy the job skills later does not work in every profession. Then they produce a garbage product, but never admit what cause this.
This happens more often than not, lets say 90% of the cases.
Is it some kind of psychological tendency of corporate climbers that they have to sign up to this view? How come they don't get caught?
I recently saw an opening for this position : Diversity and culture advisor. And surely some pretty girl would get that job. And this is in one of the top 10 companies by revenue all over the world.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:15 AM
 
3,756 posts, read 2,121,985 times
Reputation: 10264
They only "skills" that matter anymore are brown-nosing skills. Technical skills and know-how don't mean crap in most places. In fact, one can argue, in many places the more you know, the more valuable are, the more people are threatened in many cases. Managers don't like their employees making them look stupid. And there are lot of woefully, inept, clueless management out there these days
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:29 AM
 
2,169 posts, read 531,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
Why have larger corporations devalued skill sets?
They haven't.

What are you personally doing to make your employer more money?
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,589 posts, read 3,019,935 times
Reputation: 12819
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
They haven't.

What are you personally doing to make your employer more money?
Disingenuous bull-puckey.

Very few employees, especially in any company larger than about 100 people, have any opportunity to "make their employer more money" other than by working longer, unpaid, unrecognized hours to hold staff costs down.

The trend from valued, generalized, and thus less-replaceable and more critical employees to a multiple of cloned drones is widespread and greatly outnumbers any older model.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:54 AM
 
Location: NYC
12,906 posts, read 8,735,729 times
Reputation: 14156
Big companies are setup to devalue skilled work in favor of process and pipeline work. It's easier for large companies to setup processes and pipelines because it leads to less dependency on labor. Over 10+ years ago projects cancel more frequently because someone or a dept didn't have the personnel or resources to perform their part. Those days companies relied on their skilled people with institutional knowledge.

As a IT consultant of 2 decades, I've been to many large corps and they're all doing the same things. Internal employees oversees consultants like me who perform the skilled work and not many cancellations as it used to be. The only problems today are internal regulations, politics, and processes that are time consuming.

The time to perform skilled work is often less consuming than waiting for internal resources to approve. All for the sake of internal regulations.

I was asked by a Director why does it take so long to get XYZ done at their company. I told him point blank that you have too many process workers and many of them should be consolidated not compartmentalized like it is.

With the way things are going towards the Cloud, I'm afraid that more people would get let go as the work will get consolidated surely over time.

I'm not worried about the cloud, as it benefits high skilled labor like consultants. This is why almost all IT consultants are branching out and pushing for the cloud as it will lead to huge conversions.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:02 PM
 
578 posts, read 169,550 times
Reputation: 1683
Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianRo View Post
Lousy management, lousy people becoming managers (Seems like most people who become managers are the worst choices to become managers) and the fact we have become a shallow, superficial society, where being the "right cultural fit" (AKA good drinking buddy) is more important than bringing skills and value to a company. Most managers back in the day, understood the value of skilled people with great work ethics and realized they did NOT grow on trees. This is no longer the case as we have ended a post-ethic crony system where skills no longer matter and companies get ran into the ground.

Companies think they can just skate by with a limited workforce and little no experience and that they can throw just ANYONE into positions of authority and Jobs that require skills, but they are beginning to realize this doesn't work. Now more people are clamoring for skills, and they play hot potato with the same old employees, but these people won't be around forever and there is no knowledge transfer and training to the new generation of workers.

Listen to all the horror stories at most places now. You can hardly find a good employer to work for these days or a good manager.
I wonder if this is why the State Government (California in general) have so many incompetent people in senior roles. I've never seen such incompetency in the private sector as I have in my few years with the state agencies in which I've worked. I'd appreciate your take on that if you have experience in the public service (gov't).
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:09 PM
 
3,756 posts, read 2,121,985 times
Reputation: 10264
Quote:
Originally Posted by settled00 View Post
I wonder if this is why the State Government (California in general) have so many incompetent people in senior roles. I've never seen such incompetency in the private sector as I have in my few years with the state agencies in which I've worked. I'd appreciate your take on that if you have experience in the public service (gov't).

All my experience has been based primarily in the private sector. Im assuming this is prevalent in various places in the public sector as well. But least the job security is better and , the incompetency of hiring endless cronies who run companies into the ground don't lead to you losing your job like it does such a high degree win the private sector. . This has happened too many times in the private sector then I can count.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:19 PM
 
1,222 posts, read 1,492,738 times
Reputation: 817
Process does not solve everything.
Especially wheth the winds of technology or market trends change. Companies have to adopt their product features, but a fully pipelined company is incapable of doing that. See Apple, all they can do is raise the price of iphone, but no other ideas.
Even in a process, there must be several high-skilled people in non-manager roles. Some companies have them and listen to them, others have them but ignore their warnings, while the worst morons eliminate them completely.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:42 PM
 
689 posts, read 249,768 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianRo View Post
They only "skills" that matter anymore are brown-nosing skills. Technical skills and know-how don't mean crap in most places. In fact, one can argue, in many places the more you know, the more valuable are, the more people are threatened in many cases. Managers don't like their employees making them look stupid. And there are lot of woefully, inept, clueless management out there these days
Exactly. I've learned that I have to pretend not to be so knowledgeable about my job. I've learned that I need to buy treats to bring in to share with my co-workers and the management. I've learned that when I see people group together and talk about non-work related, their sickness, or millions of their personal problems, and see people "try" to console each other for half an hour, 45 minutes or more, several times a day, I need to stop working, to join in and smile or weep or pat their shoulders to make them feel better. Your work is not so important. Making your co-workers and your managers to feel good is much more important. That's how you can keep your job. LOL. HORRIBLE.
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