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Old 06-08-2019, 03:10 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 16,605,258 times
Reputation: 38530

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Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
Keep your cynicism to yourself. And stop covering up for psychopaths.

In today's corporate world, your scenario is not common. 50 years ago it was.


What really happens is there are 50 candidates, candidates ordered by competence would mean candidate#1...candidate#50. To draw a professional threshold, based on productivity, only candidate#1 is competent, candidates#[2...50] are incompetent charlatans and liars. HR cuts out 90% of the people based on psycho juck science. Actually competence is really contradicting some of their requirements. So only candidate#10, candidate#20 and candidate#30 pass the HR screening.
Now candidates#[1...9] are rightfully call foul play. Candidate#[21...29] and candidate#[31...50] are obviously wrong to complain. In general this case is still non-meritocratic. If candidate#1 is rejected, then it is non-meritocratic, psychopathic, regardless of what candidate#[2...50] think.
I do not think HR has as much power as you seem to think they do. They follow corporate policies, and they use the weeding out software that the corporation has purchased. In my field, HR cowards resumes to the regional manager in the area that needs coverage. They donít accept or reject applicants themselves.

I think the software they use is probably the bigger issue, but the HR people donít have any control over that. I have filled out online applications I never heard anything back, but then when I contact the company HR office directly, I end up getting hired. I donít think they ever saw my online application.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:28 PM
 
1,220 posts, read 1,491,763 times
Reputation: 813
hr has a lot of power. not just the software, but the hr persons also do screening.
corporate policies originate somewhere: hr managers attend the hr conferences where hr gurus present the latest hr junk science.



i had hr phone screenings before, and the managers ever heard of me. years later i run into the manager, i told him i wanted to work there, then they interviewed me, they said i was the best candidate they have seen in years, then hr blocked my hiring again.
on another hr screening one guy insisted that skill X is a must for job Y, while everyone in the Y industry knows that X is done by the department Z and nothing to do with job Y. illogical. them he says i dont have experioence with Y and rejected by application, the eng manager never seen my resume.
there are millions of stories like that on the internet.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:51 PM
 
16 posts, read 3,535 times
Reputation: 75
I'll venture to say a good 80 to 85% of jobs posted on job sites or corporate sites using various HR pre-screening tools are invariably filled by networking - someone who knows or recommends someone - and not through the site. But the job is posted nonetheless because they are required to do so. There are very few people I know who have obtained jobs or risen in their careers without networking, and none through applying online. If anyone truly believes applying online for a job, no matter how well qualified, is going to get the job, they need to rethink their job search methods.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:13 PM
 
10,058 posts, read 4,651,831 times
Reputation: 15280
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCNJ View Post
But the job is posted nonetheless because they are required to do so.
What law requires it? Even eeoc doesn't require it

Why not stop spreading rumors because someone didn't get hired and is now bitter?

Only time I ever took a hr test was for typing speed, I sat there and didn't do it and when they came back, they told me it wasn't needed for job so they left my score of 0 alone. I still got hired
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,931 posts, read 8,394,310 times
Reputation: 15510
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCNJ View Post
I'll venture to say a good 80 to 85% of jobs posted on job sites or corporate sites using various HR pre-screening tools are invariably filled by networking - someone who knows or recommends someone - and not through the site. But the job is posted nonetheless because they are required to do so. There are very few people I know who have obtained jobs or risen in their careers without networking, and none through applying online. If anyone truly believes applying online for a job, no matter how well qualified, is going to get the job, they need to rethink their job search methods.
I have gotten jobs by applying online to organizations where I knew nobody.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:52 PM
 
794 posts, read 334,169 times
Reputation: 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
What law requires it? Even eeoc doesn't require it

Why not stop spreading rumors because someone didn't get hired and is now bitter?

Only time I ever took a hr test was for typing speed, I sat there and didn't do it and when they came back, they told me it wasn't needed for job so they left my score of 0 alone. I still got hired
I generally find out the name of the manager or director of the department I want to work in, get his/her email (or figure it out via the standard assembly of how that org creates usernames from their real names), and send my resume and cover letter directly. If they're interested, they'll tell me how to proceed and be watching out for it to come through the online system.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:42 PM
 
2,896 posts, read 1,070,560 times
Reputation: 2439
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCNJ View Post
I'll venture to say a good 80 to 85% of jobs posted on job sites or corporate sites using various HR pre-screening tools are invariably filled by networking - someone who knows or recommends someone - and not through the site. But the job is posted nonetheless because they are required to do so. There are very few people I know who have obtained jobs or risen in their careers without networking, and none through applying online. If anyone truly believes applying online for a job, no matter how well qualified, is going to get the job, they need to rethink their job search methods.
Likely true, but your post just admitted that the HR/applicant tracking system was thus broken beyond repair if it's only used about 15-20% of the time. One then has to wonder if it's only used to meet with absurd government laws, as an excuse for companies to get their "data" to say they didn't find any qualified Americans and thus need illegals or H1Bs to do the jobs, that the HR online processes are more used for data mining and selling people's information than actual hiring, that it's keep around because if enough people realized it was a fraud, they'd just go to networking from the get go and thus HR and a lot of bureaucratic paper pushers would no longer be able to justify their jobs and would get a pink slip, because if the truth came out, their lies that the education system was all to blame and that it was the reason they couldn't find enough candidates would come under massive scrutiny when the public realized how bad the recruiting/hiring system was, etc.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:58 PM
 
2,111 posts, read 2,087,563 times
Reputation: 3563
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCNJ View Post
I'll venture to say a good 80 to 85% of jobs posted on job sites or corporate sites using various HR pre-screening tools are invariably filled by networking - someone who knows or recommends someone - and not through the site. But the job is posted nonetheless because they are required to do so. There are very few people I know who have obtained jobs or risen in their careers without networking, and none through applying online. If anyone truly believes applying online for a job, no matter how well qualified, is going to get the job, they need to rethink their job search methods.
THIS.

Not to say you'll never get a job by applying cold, but most people get better jobs because they know someone in the company who can vouch for them. Managers would rather hire a know quantity that can do the job than some unknown that only looks good on paper. Doesn't matter if the paper has better qualifications, the known quantity wins every time.

That guy that went from supermarket to engineer knew someone. Get out and network!
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:36 PM
 
2,053 posts, read 595,092 times
Reputation: 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrodome2 View Post
That guy that went from supermarket to engineer knew someone. Get out and network!
Networking doesn't work when the people you're trying to network with don't have any social skills. It's inherently the same problem as a job interview. Trying to get someone you don't know interested in what you have to say and offer them.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,789 posts, read 13,277,872 times
Reputation: 15911
After graduating and seeking professional jobs it didn't take me very long to develop an extreme dislike for HR bimbos. I'd come to an interview hoping to have intelligent and pertinent conversations about science and adding value to the company only to have some vacuous ditz hurl hack psychology at me. I've had them give me assignments like it is third grade, junk science psychometric exams (I asked people in the field with PhD in psychology and they confirmed what I logically deduced. Those exams are total fake science and an embarrassment to the profession). I've walked away from apps due to off leash HR and the one problem I have in my current position is hr stressing me out with more fake science performance Management system that don't even assess your job performance. It is a total excrement show and HR are a bunch of frauds I place in the same category as crazy antivaxers hurting others with their nonsense.
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