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Old 06-08-2019, 08:01 PM
 
10,062 posts, read 4,668,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
conversations about science and adding value to the company
Profits and policy is the management's job, not really your job as an employee so why would they talk about value in the interview unless that was the position you were applying for.

They care if you can do the job based on the criteria they were given by the hiring manager. Poor criteria and they have little to work with.
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:25 PM
 
2,111 posts, read 2,093,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Networking doesn't work when the people you're trying to network with don't have any social skills. It's inherently the same problem as a job interview. Trying to get someone you don't know interested in what you have to say and offer them.
You join professional societies. I worked in the pharmaceutical industry. There is the drug information association, regulatory affairs professionals just to name two big ones. You don't lead with trying to find a job. You start by talking about what you have in common to build a relationship before you jump into sales mode. You have to have or develop some basic social skills even just to hold a job.

You need to find people outside your own company. Keep in touch with people when they leave your company. When people I knew were leaving where I worked, I'd get their personal e-mail so I could keep in touch. How many people do that?
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:12 PM
 
6,853 posts, read 3,722,997 times
Reputation: 18093
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
Profits and policy is the management's job, not really your job as an employee so why would they talk about value in the interview unless that was the position you were applying for.

They care if you can do the job based on the criteria they were given by the hiring manager. Poor criteria and they have little to work with.
Because many modern evaluation and pay systems require the employee (specifically the employee, not the supervisor) to be able to draw a direct link between their tasks and goals for the evaluation period and the company bottom line. You have to be able to explain specifically how your performance on task A leads to B which leads to C on the balance sheet. There could be a whole separate thread on this along.

This type performance system is just another of the HR processes to add to the list.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:32 PM
 
2,435 posts, read 695,084 times
Reputation: 3426
Reject people for being "overqualified"

This means
* You have a dead end job.
* You do not develop or groom your people for higher level jobs.
* You do not want people who go above and beyond the call of duty.
* You do not want to buy a Porsche at a Chevy's price.
* You don't want high performers.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:34 PM
 
10,062 posts, read 4,668,516 times
Reputation: 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Because many modern evaluation and pay systems require the employee (specifically the employee, not the supervisor) to be able to draw a direct link between their tasks and goals for the evaluation period and the company bottom line. You have to be able to explain specifically how your performance on task A leads to B which leads to C on the balance sheet. There could be a whole separate thread on this along.

This type performance system is just another of the HR processes to add to the list.
No, I understand that, ONCE you are an employee. But what does HR in particular have to do with this? They are not evaluating who is going to save money, they are checking who can do the job they were assigned to fill. The manager will decide from the people that can do the job on who can save money. Then they hand that list back to HR to get interview scheduled/job offer

Not too sure I get the 20% comment about applications, I can say 100% of everyone hired has put in an application so HR can send them the job offer to accept. Whether the application is a formality or not is a separate issue.

Knowing how the screening process works is something people learn in school. From the time they learned to screen which "questions" would be on an exam or not, then they focus on the ones they know will be tested.

Again, people seem to forget basic skills they knew in school and thought after graduation they didn't need it anymore

Edit: or at least my experience with hr was paperwork and formality. I interview with the managers directly, HR present to record answers if they are even there. But they don't ask questions that weren't given to them from the manager/position duties
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:01 AM
 
1,226 posts, read 1,496,794 times
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Again, HR wants to disqualify people based on criteria that has nothing to do with contribution to the bottom line. What hr wants and what the department manager wants are very different. HR looks at themselves as someone who creates a utopia, where everyone feels equally valued (regardless of their performance or contribution). hr has an agenda, that has nothing to do with the business.
HR does not serve the interests of the business, it is the other way around. The business (without their knowledge) provides raw material to hr for their social experiments and utopia-building. If they cannot build a utopia in a whole country, then they go and try one within a large corporation. It is politics, not company politics but ideological tyranny.


You cannot network into most jobs, as the managers contacts are not public. Or they just block you if you try. networking events usually involve people from small companies, the big corporate managers dont bother with it.



Our company had an hr email publicly listed on the website when i applied, but the hr function was minimal, they only forwarded all applications to the managers. Now they removed it and only application forms remain. Back then after sending an email with my intentions and qualifications, next day the manager responded to ask me in for an interview. Today it would not be possible. Our company grows like weeds after rain.
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:03 AM
 
16 posts, read 3,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
What law requires it? Even eeoc doesn't require it

Why not stop spreading rumors because someone didn't get hired and is now bitter?

Only time I ever took a hr test was for typing speed, I sat there and didn't do it and when they came back, they told me it wasn't needed for job so they left my score of 0 alone. I still got hired
Company policy, not law.
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:11 AM
 
16 posts, read 3,587 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Networking doesn't work when the people you're trying to network with don't have any social skills. It's inherently the same problem as a job interview. Trying to get someone you don't know interested in what you have to say and offer them.
Networking is a career-long process, and can consist of people with whom you went to school, sorority or fraternity members, colleagues in professional organizations, business associates, your friends, church members, etc. And you need to work it. It's like a second job you constantly run in the background.
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:29 AM
 
16 posts, read 3,587 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseHugger View Post
Likely true, but your post just admitted that the HR/applicant tracking system was thus broken beyond repair if it's only used about 15-20% of the time. One then has to wonder if it's only used to meet with absurd government laws, as an excuse for companies to get their "data" to say they didn't find any qualified Americans and thus need illegals or H1Bs to do the jobs, that the HR online processes are more used for data mining and selling people's information than actual hiring, that it's keep around because if enough people realized it was a fraud, they'd just go to networking from the get go and thus HR and a lot of bureaucratic paper pushers would no longer be able to justify their jobs and would get a pink slip, because if the truth came out, their lies that the education system was all to blame and that it was the reason they couldn't find enough candidates would come under massive scrutiny when the public realized how bad the recruiting/hiring system was, etc.
I came to the conclusion in 2012 while searching for a job that job and company sites were useless because they are just feeding information to recruiters based on key words or phrases. Job searching has changed dramatically in the almost last two decades.

Having worked closely with recruiters in my former company, the sites were only used to recruit field sales positions. Any position in management was ultimately filled through networking. Those positions were also posted on the sites because company policy dictated all positions were to be posted on the sites. They know it's not a perfect system, but it's an untenable chore to root through stacks of resumes.

Knowing it's not a perfect system, one needs to adapt. The sites don't work. Don't get angry. Get creative!
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:45 AM
 
4,555 posts, read 4,731,891 times
Reputation: 3595
Quote:
Originally Posted by buenos View Post
hr has a lot of power. not just the software, but the hr persons also do screening.
corporate policies originate somewhere: hr managers attend the hr conferences where hr gurus present the latest hr junk science.



i had hr phone screenings before, and the managers ever heard of me. years later i run into the manager, i told him i wanted to work there, then they interviewed me, they said i was the best candidate they have seen in years, then hr blocked my hiring again.
on another hr screening one guy insisted that skill X is a must for job Y, while everyone in the Y industry knows that X is done by the department Z and nothing to do with job Y. illogical. them he says i dont have experioence with Y and rejected by application, the eng manager never seen my resume.
there are millions of stories like that on the internet.
You do realize those “HR” people doing the screening are recruiters that work directly with the hiring manager and pass all their notes from the call to the hiring manager. As a previous hiring manager in a fortune 10 company I had complete access to the requisition and everything that came in, I just relied on the recruiter to look at the 75+ resumes that came in for our role because 95% of them shouldn’t have applied in the first place they didn’t meet any of the preferred qualifications.
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