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Old 06-15-2019, 10:15 AM
 
20,808 posts, read 16,774,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012 View Post
Um, all I was doing was trying to answer your question about why it might be to someone's "advantage" to "claim" a disability -- why some non-disabled people (who CANNOT apply through Schedule A) might see the program as a "loophole," as some see affirmative action as a "loophole" for people of color. I wasn't at all saying that I see it as a "loophole"; I actually think the program sounds terrific as it is. I was not bashing it, I was just trying to answer your question.

The simple answer is, Schedule A is -- as written -- less competitive (or not competitive), by design. As I also wrote, I have no idea if in practice it really is. It WOULD be interesting to find some statistics on that, especially on whether the program itself HAS done what it was intended to do, which is hire more people with disabilities.



I think you have me mixed up with someone else; I never mentioned heart disease. (The government links might mention it, or another poster might have, but I didn't.)



Yes, exactly. That's what I was trying to say (thought I did say it! ).



I just meant that ANY federal job that is non-competitive gives the person applying a gigantic advantage over jobs that ARE competitive. Again, I wasn't begrudging the program or the disabled person who gets the job!



Completely agree! Again, I wasn't bashing the program -- and I wish you luck!
I think I did have you mixed up with another poster who kept trying to say that it didnít matter what your disability was all you Gotta do is get a doctor to sign a letter and that people with disabilities under schedule A are most likely taking advantage of the system.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:24 PM
 
6,940 posts, read 7,342,419 times
Reputation: 9853
Yes, indeed, my point is that IF a person can get a doc to sign a Schedule A (a form letter) the just put on their letterhead and sign....then a person can be considered for that category of non-competitive hiring.

Do hiring officials actually ASK for documentation? I don't know. They can. But do they?

IF that's not a "loophole" I don't know what is.
But I also said it's no different from any other loophole, people could exploit.

I never said people with disabilities under schedule A are most likely taking advantage of the system.

If anything it would people who do NOT have disabilities gaming the system.

I have no doubt there are plenty of people, who've been long term patients of doctors, and people whom their doctor has been treating them for something for years....for whom a doctor would sign that form, if there's the slightest chance the person's condition could be a disability. Gout. A mild heart condition. Psoriasis. Arthritis. Restless Leg Syndrome. Sleep Apnea. Pick any condition......as I've said: not all conditions are disabilities.
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:45 PM
 
1,491 posts, read 822,332 times
Reputation: 2457
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
Yes, indeed, my point is that IF a person can get a doc to sign a Schedule A (a form letter) the just put on their letterhead and sign....then a person can be considered for that category of non-competitive hiring.

Do hiring officials actually ASK for documentation? I don't know. They can. But do they?

IF that's not a "loophole" I don't know what is.
But I also said it's no different from any other loophole, people could exploit.

I never said people with disabilities under schedule A are most likely taking advantage of the system.

If anything it would people who do NOT have disabilities gaming the system.

I have no doubt there are plenty of people, who've been long term patients of doctors, and people whom their doctor has been treating them for something for years....for whom a doctor would sign that form, if there's the slightest chance the person's condition could be a disability. Gout. A mild heart condition. Psoriasis. Arthritis. Restless Leg Syndrome. Sleep Apnea. Pick any condition......as I've said: not all conditions are disabilities.

Some of those are or may be Schedule A qualifying disabilities, whether you agree with them being so or not. Arthritis is specifically listed on the SF256. I have mild arthritis in my hands, and I doubt that any doctor would write me a Schedule A letter for it. I have no cartilage left in one knee due to arthritis, and a doctor might consider that qualifying depending on how much it impacts my mobility.

Here is a detailed description of how it operates during the hiring process. https://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/preemp.html

It appears that the only time hiring officials can request more specific information beyond the presence/absence of disability during the pre-offer stage is when reasonable accommodations are needed to perform the job. If the person's disability is otherwise hidden they are not required to provide any more information about it. But the employer can do a lot of testing to find out if the person is able to perform the duties of the job. And in the post-offer stage they can require more information and medical exams, as long as they do the same for all employees entering that job.

So a person could wrongfully get a Schedule A position if their doctor deliberately lies but that's not a loophole its an illegal or unethical act by the doctor. Its the doctor's responsibility to act in a legal and ethical manner. Someone asking their doctor for such a letter is not doing anything wrong unless they deliberately deceive the doctor to get that letter. And guess how many federal jobs they will get if they ever get caught doing that? Probably never again. If the person really wants a federal job that badly, they are taking a big risk.

I think in the absence of evidence that applicants or doctors are actually abusing the system to any significant degree we have no reason to think that a significant number are. If you read what employers can require post-offer, its going to eliminate most abuse. I would guess that most people trying to game the system would be looking to get accommodations they don't really need medically, and they are going to be found out.
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Old Today, 03:16 AM
 
Location: USA
5 posts, read 677 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
And any smart person who's paying attention knows what a loophole this is, right?
They can't ask what the "disability" is, you don't have to say what it is? So do you really have it?

They MAY ask for some records. But at the time of application all you need is a form letter from your doctor saying you have "a severe physical, intellectual, or psychiatric disability." And a letter can say anything, can't it? You'd be surprised how vague what's considered a qualifying condition is. Not that a doctor would risk getting into trouble saying you have if you don't have it. But realistically what repercussion could there be. As long as you have some condition, you just need your doc to sign the letter. So what's the down side to getting a doc tossing the letter, IF s/he will do it.

I've read that the definition of qualifying disabilities was intentionally NOT defined, so as not to rule out some conditions. So, if there's no definition it could be anything, couldn't it?

And I don't know that they even ask for any supporting docs. They say the could, but do they really?
If they don't I guess the applicant is hired, and may have lied to get that special consideration.

Many people believe the federal hiring system is broken. I wonder why.
Yes, this might be the case.
Disability can happen to anyone. If you are considering it to apply for some benefits then you must be sure that it would be for real. Severe disability are considered as those which prevents the physical functionality of a person. He might not be able to perform social tasks. "a severe physical, intellectual, or psychiatric disability" are the best examples of these as you have mentioned.
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