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Old 06-21-2019, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,753 posts, read 1,013,777 times
Reputation: 3013

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
This is ILLEGAL.

You're entitled by LAW to use ALL of your accrued leave and not be discriminated against for it or discouraged from using it.
Are you in the US?
Please quote that law and provide the source.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:49 AM
 
1,546 posts, read 399,556 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
You don't remember or have not seen a problem at your workplace does not mean it does not happen somewhere else.

You want the metric, here's the link: Increased Number of Workers Calling In Sick When They Aren't, Finds CareerBuilder's Annual Survey - Nov 16, 2017

Is 40% (in the survey) not much?

Well, the lazy, pretending, tricky ones always have their reasons or excuses to call in sick and are always against the hard-working and honest ones.

Many people here can say "it's none of your business". It is everybody's business when those lazy and tricky ones want to take a "sick" day or two, and others have do more and more extra work. It's very tiresome and sickening.

Some managers don't care too because they call in sick more than some employees; and/or they are weak, they don't know how to deal with those lazy and tricky ones, and they just put the work on the ones who work hard and don't call in sick. And those managers cause more employees to call in sick.
This is not a serious study. Calling it junk science would be a compliment. It is written by a website and the contact person on it works in PR(Public Relations). It contains no author and their credentials. That website is for employers, and it is written to please employers. It wasn't performed by an independent group that has a reason to seek the truth, because the story is written cause it is good click-bait. It came from PR, because the survey was a way to promote their website and people like you simply spread their advertising for free by posting it to forums. It isn't a serious study and at best it is mildly amusing.

My experience is valid. I've been a project manager for many years with different companies and situations, and there has never been a discussion or concern about the number of sick days people are taking. It simply doesn't factor into the costs of the projects. It is not an issue. Any employer with their salt knows that people are not machines and they can't be available 2080 hours a year. They need downtime for whatever reason, either by vacation or sick days. This is nothing to get excited about. This is not a reason a business is in trouble. People at work waste far more time being unproductive in useless meetings and poorly planned projects, and bad management decisions than the number of sick days employees take on an annual basis.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:51 AM
 
11,118 posts, read 8,527,266 times
Reputation: 28064
I don't monitor other's sick days.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,767 posts, read 4,825,615 times
Reputation: 19387
The worst is when a malingerer has used up all their sick days, and then comes in sick and spreads their disgusting germs all over the office.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:05 PM
 
685 posts, read 249,062 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
This is not a serious study. Calling it junk science would be a compliment. It is written by a website and the contact person on it works in PR(Public Relations). It contains no author and their credentials. That website is for employers, and it is written to please employers. It wasn't performed by an independent group that has a reason to seek the truth, because the story is written cause it is good click-bait. It came from PR, because the survey was a way to promote their website and people like you simply spread their advertising for free by posting it to forums. It isn't a serious study and at best it is mildly amusing.

My experience is valid. I've been a project manager for many years with different companies and situations, and there has never been a discussion or concern about the number of sick days people are taking. It simply doesn't factor into the costs of the projects. It is not an issue. Any employer with their salt knows that people are not machines and they can't be available 2080 hours a year. They need downtime for whatever reason, either by vacation or sick days. This is nothing to get excited about. This is not a reason a business is in trouble. People at work waste far more time being unproductive in useless meetings and poorly planned projects, and bad management decisions than the number of sick days employees take on an annual basis.
Keep wearing your pink glasses and drink kool-aid, or dig your head in the sand and pretend there are no problems.

Most people in the management are afraid of the PR and try to avoid the PR when they have problems.

Many "project" managers or mangers in general live in denial, and they themselves have lots of problems too, and they want to cover up for the employees who are their pets, and let those pets to be lazy and to be "sick" whenever they want, or they don't know how to deal with the lazy and cheating employees, so they just close their eyes and let go. They never admit there are problems in their "team" anyway.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:41 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
4,475 posts, read 3,313,911 times
Reputation: 13767
IMO paid leave is part of a person's compensation package, and it should be assumed that the employee will use all of it. Staffing and workplace procedures should be set up with that in mind. If some individuals don't need or want to use all of their time, great, but don't give paid leave if you don't want people to take that paid leave.

For unpaid sick days there needs to be a firm but fair absence policy. One place I worked at had a points system for absences, lateness, etc. and if you accrued a certain amount of points in a certain period, you were fired. Absences with a doctor's note didn't earn points, nor did absences where you pre-arranged for someone to cover your shift. I thought that was pretty sensible, for the nature of the job and company.
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,930 posts, read 8,394,310 times
Reputation: 15500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
This is not a serious study. Calling it junk science would be a compliment.

...

It is not an issue. Any employer with their salt knows that people are not machines and they can't be available 2080 hours a year.
This is exactly correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Keep wearing your pink glasses and drink kool-aid, or dig your head in the sand and pretend there are no problems.

Most people in the management are afraid of the PR and try to avoid the PR when they have problems.

Many "project" managers or mangers in general live in denial, and they themselves have lots of problems too, and they want to cover up for the employees who are their pets, and let those pets to be lazy and to be "sick" whenever they want, or they don't know how to deal with the lazy and cheating employees, so they just close their eyes and let go. They never admit there are problems in their "team" anyway.
You are not addressing Rummage's points, you are simply trying to attack his/her character. That debate tactic is the tool of a person who does not have any actual facts to contribute to the discussion.

Sickness happens. Some people tend to be sick more often than others, this is true, but across an enterprise, it averages out and is not a large scale problem.
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:03 PM
 
3,754 posts, read 2,120,792 times
Reputation: 10254
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Keep wearing your pink glasses and drink kool-aid, or dig your head in the sand and pretend there are no problems.

Most people in the management are afraid of the PR and try to avoid the PR when they have problems.

Many "project" managers or mangers in general live in denial, and they themselves have lots of problems too, and they want to cover up for the employees who are their pets, and let those pets to be lazy and to be "sick" whenever they want, or they don't know how to deal with the lazy and cheating employees, so they just close their eyes and let go. They never admit there are problems in their "team" anyway.


Very true. When a culture it rotten and dysfunctional, generally everyone knows it is and the management continues to let it happen because it require acting on the obvious problems and they will have to admit theres a problem or that THEY screwed up in the hiring process and made a serious error and most won't managers won't admit they screwed or that they are unqualified for the job so the problems continue on and continue to get ignored until the company goes bankrtupt/gets bought out/destroyed by a competitor etc.


If theres problem in a company 9 times out of 10 it can ALWAYS Be traced back to poor management. But generally nothing is ever done until its probably too late anyways. Companies really need to be more cognisant of who they put in management position these days
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Old 06-22-2019, 06:40 PM
 
685 posts, read 249,062 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
This is exactly correct.



You are not addressing Rummage's points, you are simply trying to attack his/her character. That debate tactic is the tool of a person who does not have any actual facts to contribute to the discussion.

Sickness happens. Some people tend to be sick more often than others, this is true, but across an enterprise, it averages out and is not a large scale problem.
For every opinion expressed, there are always two sides to agree and disagree. You and some others don't agree with me; there are people who agree.

The same with news and surveys on TV and the internet, some people agree with them, and some others would say fake news. LOL.

I'm simply trying to tell the truth from what I've seen and want to express my opinion.

At my workplace there were employees who call in "sick" a lot, and a few managers who call in sick more than employees.

I do have empathy and sympathy for those who call in sick when they are truly sick; and when they are at work, they really do their work. They are not lazy and don't talk more than work. They don't leave their slacks for their co-workers to take care of. They don't expect to do easy and less work. They are not managers' *asskissers. They just care to do their work well and productively for the company.

This woman who really knows how to sweet talk to this managers and call in "sick" all the times, and she told this manager she had some "special sickness" and this manager took lots of this woman's work and added on someone else who was quiet and worked very hard, especially the very heavy labor work (we work in the office, but we have to do some labor work too), and let this woman not to do any of that labor work. The way this manager treated employees was like playing favoritism. The other woman spoke up, and the manger said that she was insubordinate. The other woman rarely called in sick before, but then she called in sick for a few months. When she was away, there were lots of talks and chaos in the company. Lots of other employees went on sick also.

This woman not only called in "sick" a lot, but also talks a lot about her "sickness" when she's at work, and many others like her like to join in and talk and talk and talk about their "sickness" and anything and everything else. It's like even talking about sickness is contagious. It's wasting times, and they abandon their work. How can a manager let some people to work like that, and in the meantime she adds work on the ones who already work hard and not to talk so much. It's like who are lazy and cheating don't have to work so hard and have less work to do; and who are working hard and honest have to work harder and have more work to do. That is unfair and bullying.

Managers are the ones who set up the company's culture and build or break up the team. If they manage right, treat employees with respect and fairness, they build the team, all employees will work hard enough or harder voluntarily. If they micromanage, treat employees with disrespect and unfairness, they will cause lots of conflicts and friction among the employees, and the team will be broken. The lazy and cheating ones will be lazier and cheat more. The hard-working and honest ones will be resentful about the way they are treated. They will think the reward for hard work is more work. And that's how the managers cause the company going down the drain.

Last edited by AnOrdinaryCitizen; 06-22-2019 at 07:14 PM..
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:29 PM
 
1,667 posts, read 548,866 times
Reputation: 3555
Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianRo View Post
Very true. When a culture it rotten and dysfunctional, generally everyone knows it is and the management continues to let it happen because it require acting on the obvious problems and they will have to admit theres a problem or that THEY screwed up in the hiring process and made a serious error and most won't managers won't admit they screwed or that they are unqualified for the job so the problems continue on and continue to get ignored until the company goes bankrtupt/gets bought out/destroyed by a competitor etc.


If theres problem in a company 9 times out of 10 it can ALWAYS Be traced back to poor management. But generally nothing is ever done until its probably too late anyways. Companies really need to be more cognisant of who they put in management position these days
I agree it can come down to poor management. That's largely because management at higher levels is an incredibly difficult job. You will always be faced with decisions where there isn't a good answer, and will be faced with being held accountable to things out of your control. That's why calling it "poor management" shows a lack of understanding. In any decision at a certain level, some people will always agree, some will disagree. What's "poor management" to one person is a good decision to another, depending on their (conflicting) goals. I've been in situations where seven different people have seven different (conflicting) goals. There will be some sort of compromise, where one of those seven people will think I'm an idiot. I'm also the only person who sees all seven perspectives, and they don't realize the negative ramifications of going after their personal (narrow) goal.

The odd thing is everyone complains about poor management, but those same people don't apply for management jobs. If management is poor, take a management job and improve on things. If you're not trying to change something, should you really complain about it?

Last edited by Lekrii; 06-22-2019 at 07:45 PM..
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