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Old 06-22-2019, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,931 posts, read 8,394,310 times
Reputation: 15515

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
For every opinion expressed, there are always two sides to agree and disagree. You and some others don't agree with me; there are people who agree.
Another common tactic to deflect from the merits of a substantive conversation. Claim that every opinion is equally valid, when in fact they are not. A fluff piece masquerading as a survey was shown to be invalid as evidence for your thoughts. You responded by attacking the poster who did that, and now you are trying to distract people from that by claiming that is only an opinion.

You are simply wrong.

Quote:
This woman who really knows how to sweet talk to this managers and call in "sick" all the times, and she told this manager she had some "special sickness" and this manager took lots of this woman's work and added on someone else who was quiet and worked very hard, especially the very heavy labor work (we work in the office, but we have to do some labor work too), and let this woman not to do any of that labor work.
This may be a problem of a poor manager, or it may be that the woman has a qualifying illness that requires a special, reasonable accommodation. Management has an ethical and legal obligation to keep personal health issues private, and your management may be doing this. You seem to have come to the conclusion that the accommodations are not required or reasonable, but you do not present any evidence to back up this, possibly unwarranted, conclusion.


Quote:
Managers are the ones who set up the company's culture and build or break up the team. If they manage right, treat employees with respect and fairness, they build the team, all employees will work hard enough or harder voluntarily. If they micromanage, treat employees with disrespect and unfairness, they will cause lots of conflicts and friction among the employees, and the team will be broken. The lazy and cheating ones will be lazier and cheat more. The hard-working and honest ones will be resentful about the way they are treated. They will think the reward for hard work is more work. And that's how the managers cause the company going down the drain.
There are large elements of truth here, but you still have not met the burden of proof with your assertion that your manager is being unfair.
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,931 posts, read 8,394,310 times
Reputation: 15515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
I agree it can come down to poor management. That's largely because management at higher levels is an incredibly difficult job. You will always be faced with decisions where there isn't a good answer, and will be faced with being held accountable to things out of your control. That's why calling it "poor management" shows a lack of understanding. In any decision at a certain level, some people will always agree, some will disagree. What's "poor management" to one person is a good decision to another, depending on their (conflicting) goals. I've been in situations where seven different people have seven different (conflicting) goals. There will be some sort of compromise, where one of those seven people will think I'm an idiot. I'm also the only person who sees all seven perspectives, and they don't realize the negative ramifications of going after their personal (narrow) goal.
Very true. I have to make compromise decisions all the time. People think I am a genius or an idiot depending on how the decision impacts them. Many people simply do not want to consider the larger picture.

Quote:
The odd thing is everyone complains about poor management, but those same people don't apply for management jobs. If management is poor, take a management job and improve on things. If you're not trying to change something, should you really complain about it?
DorianRo has mentioned in the past that he does not want to apply for a management position, and prefers to stay in his warehouse worker role. He just likes to complain about the world, and taking responsibility would prevent him from doing that.
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:43 PM
 
686 posts, read 249,062 times
Reputation: 1815
Everyone is different.

Many people just want to have a job to pay bills and take care of their own family, and they do their best when they are at work. They don't want to manage or take care of a bunch of big babies.

Many people are idiots but they want power as managers, so they can stroke their ego and bully the employees they dislike.

Yeah, there are many very nice, competent, capable people who want to to step up to change the workplace or the world to be a better place for everybody to work and live. They are like heroes.

I have a few leaders and mangers like the latter.
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:05 PM
 
686 posts, read 249,062 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Another common tactic to deflect from the merits of a substantive conversation. Claim that every opinion is equally valid, when in fact they are not. A fluff piece masquerading as a survey was shown to be invalid as evidence for your thoughts. You responded by attacking the poster who did that, and now you are trying to distract people from that by claiming that is only an opinion.

You are simply wrong.



This may be a problem of a poor manager, or it may be that the woman has a qualifying illness that requires a special, reasonable accommodation. Management has an ethical and legal obligation to keep personal health issues private, and your management may be doing this. You seem to have come to the conclusion that the accommodations are not required or reasonable, but you do not present any evidence to back up this, possibly unwarranted, conclusion.




There are large elements of truth here, but you still have not met the burden of proof with your assertion that your manager is being unfair.
Hypocritical mangers never want to listen to others' opinions which are not the same with theirs. They always think what they do is right. They always cover up when there's something wrong. They never admit their mistakes. They have big mouth and snake mind
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,931 posts, read 8,394,310 times
Reputation: 15515
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Hypocritical mangers never want to listen to others' opinions which are not the same with theirs. They always think what they do is right. They always cover up when there's something wrong. They never admit their mistakes. They have big mouth and snake mind
Sure, true in some cases, but you have not given any indication that this is the case at your workplace. Are you implying that i fall into that category?
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:23 PM
 
1,546 posts, read 399,556 times
Reputation: 2887
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Keep wearing your pink glasses and drink kool-aid, or dig your head in the sand and pretend there are no problems.

Most people in the management are afraid of the PR and try to avoid the PR when they have problems.

Many "project" managers or mangers in general live in denial, and they themselves have lots of problems too, and they want to cover up for the employees who are their pets, and let those pets to be lazy and to be "sick" whenever they want, or they don't know how to deal with the lazy and cheating employees, so they just close their eyes and let go. They never admit there are problems in their "team" anyway.
Do you even know what PR is? PR is Public Relations, as in Public Relations for that website to promote the website. It has nothing to do with the management of the employer for workers.

Do you even know what a Project Manager is? We plan and manage the projects. We create timelines, budgets and do tracking. We don't get involved with who is assigned to do what work, that's what their supervisor does. So we don't know of anyone being a favored. But it has been my experience, the people who are given better treatment by management have earned it. They make great contributions to the projects and are considered more valuable. But if you are going to be jealous of those people, no one else can convince you otherwise. The student who gets straights As spends a lot of time studying, not sweet talking the teachers. Come on, this is real life, not a low-brow sitcom.

You have an incorrect and misinformed view of how a company works and how the work gets done. Perhaps you should study some books on project manager to actually understand how things work instead of listening to people who simply complain about everything all the time.

Last edited by rummage; 06-22-2019 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:35 PM
 
686 posts, read 249,062 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Sure, true in some cases, but you have not given any indication that this is the case at your workplace. Are you implying that i fall into that category?
Are all the things I mentioned in my post (#49) not enough indications regarding my topic of the reasons why many employees call in "sick" so much? Read it again and think careful about it if you are a manager. Be open-minded and fair.

If you were not the kind of managers mentioned in my post (#55), you are good. That kind of managers are disrespectful, not respectable. They can't help to make the company to be better, but on the opposite.
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,931 posts, read 8,394,310 times
Reputation: 15515
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOrdinaryCitizen View Post
Are all the things I mentioned in my post (#49) not enough indications regarding my topic of the reasons why many employees call in "sick" so much? Read it again and think careful about it if you are a manager. Be open-minded and fair.
I already addressed that post. Nothing you said indicates poor management. Everything you wrote could equally be indicative of a coworker who has a legitimate medical condition, with your manager taking the appropriate course of action.

Quote:
If you were not the kind of managers mentioned in my post (#55), you are good. That kind of managers are disrespectful, not respectable. They can't help to make the company to be better, but on the opposite.
Are you taking your arguments from the worst debate book ever written? You have consistently refused to acknowledge points made by others, you attack other people, you make the feeble claim that all opinions are equally valid, you avoid responding, you point back to your previous posts as if they have not been addressed, and now you are making unfounded implications.

I think that I have engaged enough on this one. You obviously have made up your mind and have an agenda that you will not be diverted from. Have a good night.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:04 PM
 
686 posts, read 249,062 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Do you even know what PR is? PR is Public Relations, as in Public Relations for that website to promote the website. It has nothing to do with the management of the employer for workers.

Do you even know what a Project Manager is? We plan and manage the projects. We create timelines, budgets and do tracking. We don't get involved with who is assigned to do what work, that's what their supervisor does. So we don't know of anyone being a favored. But it has been my experience, the people who are given better treatment by management have earned it. They make great contributions to the projects and are considered more valuable. But if you are going to be jealous of those people, no one else can convince you otherwise. The student who gets straights As spends a lot of time studying, not sweet talking the teachers. Come on, this is real life, not a low-brow sitcom.

You have an incorrect and misinformed view of how a company works and how the work gets done. Perhaps you should study some books on project manager to actually understand how things work instead of listening to people who simply complain about everything all the time.
You just don't get it.

My point of the topic is from my observation in life and at work. I care, and I wanted to know how people - you, me and everyone - can help to improve the workplace to be a good place for everyone to work with no unfairness, no laziness, no cheating, no bullying. Well, that's too ideal, no one can make it, right?

The one in bold maybe is from what you see, or not see otherwise. To me, I told what I saw.

And about "The student who gets straights As spends a lot of time studying, not sweet talking the teachers", I agree with you. And those students got jealousy from the lazy ones and have lesser grades. And the lazy ones hate them and gang up and bully them. That happens at many workplaces too. The lazy and cheating employees hate the had-working and knowledgeable employees. They gang up and find some managers who are like them to bully those hard-working ones. Be honest, don't close your eyes and tell me otherwise. Many managers are not so great, not knowledgeable, and they feel insecure, and they want to get rid of the smart, knowledgeable employees, so they can be on top and feel better.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:36 PM
 
686 posts, read 249,062 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
I already addressed that post. Nothing you said indicates poor management. Everything you wrote could equally be indicative of a coworker who has a legitimate medical condition, with your manager taking the appropriate course of action.
In the case of that coworker, a good manager should have let that worker to be off work or even come to work (whatever the manager would decide rightly), but she should have hired another worker to come to do her work, not to lessen that "sick" worker's job and added it on the other worker. That is unfair, and caused the other worker burnt out and sick.

Quote:
Are you taking your arguments from the worst debate book ever written? You have consistently refused to acknowledge points made by others, you attack other people, you make the feeble claim that all opinions are equally valid, you avoid responding, you point back to your previous posts as if they have not been addressed, and now you are making unfounded implications.

I think that I have engaged enough on this one. You obviously have made up your mind and have an agenda that you will not be diverted from. Have a good night.
You and a few others did not get my point of the topic in my OP. You and those others have different opinions than mine, and just want to be right and want to attack me too like many bullying managers who want to bully the ones they dislike. Lots of people like you don't want to hear what they don't want to hear on the news and surveys, and in reality, and they are against them. Just brush them off and say they are garbage.

Good night, sleep tight.
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