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Old 06-23-2019, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,552 posts, read 3,633,260 times
Reputation: 3625

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
No it would be less assuming you get raises too. 26 years of inflation would cut it by nearly half. The pension estimate calculators don't tend include inflation adjustments even while they calculate the "growth" or it uses a flat inflation rate


They put in 1% automatically but you need to put in your own money to get to the full 5%. So you put away 6% to get the 5% matching. This is on top of the current 4.4% for fers on new employees. Basically they are forced to put 10% into retirement to get full benefits.

In real terms, a $70k fed job would be a $100k private sector job depending on how you value the pension. But the federal work is living on $60k/year to get full benefits. This is what I meant before that in the early retirement people, if they saved $40k/year, they could retire a lot earlier than the comparable government worker for the same amount of retirement dollars. This isn't even counting if either workers are putting more towards retirement but only to meet the fers and 5% matching.

The golden handcuffs are only golden for people who can't do basic retirement planning and need someone else to do it for them
That seems like a better deal than my current 12% required contribution rate with the Arizona State Retirement System. It used to be 11% when I got hired. The employer matches at the same percentage, but if you ever leave an ASRS employer, you arenít eligible to receive their portion regardless of how long youíve worked there (for people hired after 2011). Which is why if I leave my job I will leave my money in ASRS even when I retire itís a ridiculously low payment because thatís the only way Iíll get their portion. Iím also putting an additional 5% into a deferred compensation plan voluntarily. I only started the deferred compensation plan recently, like a few months ago, but itís nice to have it.

I would be inclined to agree with you, I would say a 401(k) may be more volatile BUT I also learned that pension stability is also determined by the stock market since pensions will directly invest in stocks too. I guess that would come down to if you think you are better at stocks than your local pension.

Another question to ask is: does that job exist at 100k in the private sector? For example in my current field and the field I want to switch into, both heavily public sector based, the private sector positions do not pay that much more. For example my job pays almost 50k gross, and local private sector auditors are getting 55-65k. You can get more if you get hired in food safety in a big corporation (like say, McDonalds). The McDonalds job had a salary of 85k I think in Chicago, which factoring in a COL difference from Phoenix, isnít that much more (I know Chicago isnít California expensive but itís still more expensive than here). That wasnít entry-level or leading the division to be fair, and my job is technically entry-level. I know that question is definitely dependent on field and industry, but itís a good one to ask.
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:02 AM
 
10,058 posts, read 4,648,803 times
Reputation: 15280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear View Post
That seems like a better deal than my current 12% required contribution rate with the Arizona State Retirement System.
You get more for it though, a 2.3% multiplier vs a 1.1% multiplier after 30 years
Quote:
Another question to ask is: does that job exist at 100k in the private sector?
What does it have to be the same job? If you were capable of getting the $70k public job at that pay rate, then you are capable of getting a $100k private...

You think people get jobs by being lucky and unskilled? Why couldn't they learn to do a different job if they had chosen to do a different career path and be successful at it or can people only be good at one thing?
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Amelia Island
2,974 posts, read 3,954,136 times
Reputation: 3088
I donít really see the disparity of pay that is so openly talked about here. If you are a GS employee, everywhere in the USA has a different locality pay for that location.

If you are a GS employee in Jacksonville, Fl you will be making a lot less than than your counter part in Boston or San Diego where those locations pay up to a 13% increase from Jacksonville.

So many want federal service because unfortunately those days of working 30-40 years with the same company is no longer that prevalent.

Depending on length of service and your ability to invest in your 401k, you can easily retire in your fifties with federal service. You have multiple avenues to invest your 401k depending on your tolerance level for risk from no risk to extreme risk. Depending on your contribution you could easily get to 450k over your career and with compounding could get you $1500 a month for quite a few years into retirement. You can also go Roth or traditional.....pre tax.

A government worker making a high three of 62k with 37 years of service retires at 62. Between his FERS annuity with survivor benefits and health insurance taken out should be roughly around $1100, if he can get get to 450k in their 401k he can then take $1500 a month to say age 92 depending on rate of return on investment and figuring a low of $1500 a month for social security that would bring them to just over 4K a month in retirement. Now this is just a rough estimate to show what you could get when retiring as a fed. Thatís not a bad pension getting 49k at retirement.Higher wages get you a higher return.

Those lucky enough to have been grandfathered into the old CSRS pension system can get 80% of their salary in retirement at 40 years of service. They do not have to participate in a 401k and depending on work history with SS they will not draw from that.

So someone who starts in an apprenticeship and works their way up should easily be able to retire if they set their goals correctly.

At age fifty you can make additional contributions to your 401k which are called catchup contributions.

If you decide to leave in your fifties with enough time in service you will receive a supplement in addition to your FERS annuity and 401k which is calculated on a percentage of what you would receive from SS at age 62.

If over your career you never used your sick leave hours which can be carried over each year you can use those hours towards your total service years at retirement.

While you still have to pay your portion of your health benefits at retirement you can also keep your dental and eye policyís also into retirement.

At age 62 with 20 years in service you get an extra bump in your FERS annuity if you stay at least a day past 62.

At 15 years in you get 5 weeks vacation a year including federal holidays. You are allowed to carry over 240 hours each year. You earn around a 100 hours in sick leave which as I mentioned you can carry over to retirement.

Some agencyís allow telecommuting, along with alternate work schedules where you work nine hour days for 8 days, the next day 8 and your tenth day you are off.

Some agencyís offer VRIDE or supplement van pools in which you receive benefits that you can put towards your commute.

I am not a cheerleader for going the civil service route for a career but there is a lot of misinformation out there. If you are young enough to get into an apprenticeship at one the naval shipyards in the US right now I would encourage it. They are desperate for people willing to learn a trade. There are also Pathway programs for engineering and other fields where you can get in right out of college.

I have seen a girl with a masters in physics get into the apprenticeship for machining just to get her foot in the door and now a few moves later she is on a government research vessel mapping the ocean floor all over the world.

You have to weigh the pros and the cons. There are a lot of people who DO want the security of a good paying job for life.

The link I am providing below is the real deal not propaganda. These are real government jobs at all the major shipyards that canít be filled to to lack of applicants. These positions will pay more than some college degree positions in the local community. We are failing at getting our young adults interested in the trades and this is not getting any better. We need to get rid of the new perception that working with your hands is no longer an acceptable career.

https://bangordailynews.com/2018/05/...dreds-of-jobs/

I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, although I do recruit at job fairs

Last edited by JBtwinz; 06-23-2019 at 06:10 AM..
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:15 PM
 
6,838 posts, read 3,708,603 times
Reputation: 18073
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
No I get the trade offs, I'm saying that retirement benefits aren't better because of the pension, it is a result of a trade off of letting the government do the retirement planning. The private sector worker can have as nice a retirement too if they planned it out.

But to turn it sideways, more younger people seem to leave the fed jobs than stick around. They take the money in private sector and say they can put it to use better themselves.
https://apolitical.co/solution_artic...s-getting-old/

Wonder how many people on CD that want the fed job would even stick around once they got it
You are exactly correct. Too many people seem to just make up random numbers about Federal pay and benefits, without actually doing the math. One of the things about the younger workers we've been hiring is they don't attach any benefit to the pension at all because they don't believe it will be there for them when they retire (the perception is Congress won't be able to leave it alone and will take the pension to pay for something else). They would rather have more money now because they believe they will do better investing for themselves.

Granted they have a lot of on line resources and trading opportunities that we didn't have back when I first started. As well as a lot of financial management companies that are available. Brokerage fees would pretty much kill a small investor back then so pensions and managed benefits were about the only way the average person could get in the market.
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:30 PM
 
6,838 posts, read 3,708,603 times
Reputation: 18073
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtwinz View Post
I donít really see the disparity of pay that is so openly talked about here. If you are a GS employee, everywhere in the USA has a different locality pay for that location.

If you are a GS employee in Jacksonville, Fl you will be making a lot less than than your counter part in Boston or San Diego where those locations pay up to a 13% increase from Jacksonville.

...:
The problem isn't that a GS 12 ( or whatever) gets a different locality in Sunnyvale CA than aa GS 12 in Enid Oklahoma. The problem is if I'm hiring a GS 12 Computer Engineer in Mississippi, I'm competing against companies in Atlanta, Palo Alto, Seattle, etc that are paying way more than a GS 12 makes. And for a lot of young people coming out of college, it would take more pay to get them to come to one of those "rest of US" areas than it would to Atlanta or Seattle because they want to live in that vibrant city. They aren't doing that in depth calculation about relative cost of living and pension plans because they want that city quality of life.

It's been one of the hardest things to get our management to understand. When I'm hiring a physicist for example, I'm not competing with the local chicken plant; I'm competing with companies around the world.
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Amelia Island
2,974 posts, read 3,954,136 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
The problem isn't that a GS 12 ( or whatever) gets a different locality in Sunnyvale CA than aa GS 12 in Enid Oklahoma. The problem is if I'm hiring a GS 12 Computer Engineer in Mississippi, I'm competing against companies in Atlanta, Palo Alto, Seattle, etc that are paying way more than a GS 12 makes. And for a lot of young people coming out of college, it would take more pay to get them to come to one of those "rest of US" areas than it would to Atlanta or Seattle because they want to live in that vibrant city. They aren't doing that in depth calculation about relative cost of living and pension plans because they want that city quality of life.

It's been one of the hardest things to get our management to understand. When I'm hiring a physicist for example, I'm not competing with the local chicken plant; I'm competing with companies around the world.
It is a no win situation. We are also ďRest of USĒ. Like you, Southeast Georgia along with your location are not going to attract those young rockstars in the technology fields.

We recently picked up two Chemists at the 11/12 level. Both wanted to be back in their small hometowns and both had no prior Navy experience.

Now gas is $2.33 a gallon and nice homes can be bought for less than 200k but we are not an exciting area as you mentioned the young college graduates like. If you like the south and want a non expensive quality of life then this is where it is at.

There are incentives in the hiring practices but I donít think anyone in their right mind would come to this area to take a pay cut. Our engineers and other technical employees would love to get a higher paying job but they are living comfortable here and know housing is going to be a problem out west or up north as far as affordability.

I feel your pain, due to our cost of living in the southeast we are at the bottom of the food chain as far as salaryís.

Again though, for those that want to graduate and stay in this area we are the best paying in a very large radius.

As far as pension participation, our 401kís have very low maintenance feeís. We have several older employees that are millionaires. It is all what you make of it. Some of our younger new hires hit the ground running as far as their TSPís. Some will not even do the match. I have married 12ís living cheap but spending large.
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:47 PM
 
10,058 posts, read 4,648,803 times
Reputation: 15280
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtwinz View Post
A government worker making a high three of 62k with 37 years of service retires at 62. Between his FERS annuity with survivor benefits and health insurance taken out should be roughly around $1100
So after 37 years, a pension of $1100/month is about $450,000 in value or amortized $12,000 was put in per year for 37 years. If you make $15,000 more a year somewhere else, you come out even. Make more then you are ahead of the pension. The other benefits are the same in private sector. 401k and car pool, etc... Even the health insurance isn't cheaper for federal workers.

Keeping fehb in retirement is worth more than the fers pension for most financial planners.

Yes there are benefits to working for the government, but making lots of money and getting rich is not one of them
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Amelia Island
2,974 posts, read 3,954,136 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
So after 37 years, a pension of $1100/month is about $450,000 in value or amortized $12,000 was put in per year for 37 years. If you make $15,000 more a year somewhere else, you come out even. Make more then you are ahead of the pension. The other benefits are the same in private sector. 401k and car pool, etc... Even the health insurance isn't cheaper for federal workers.

Keeping fehb in retirement is worth more than the fers pension for most financial planners.

Yes there are benefits to working for the government, but making lots of money and getting rich is not one of them
This board is too hard to lay out the multitude of variables. I am under an older version of FERS I only contribute 0.08% in. The newer employees after 2010 pay a bit higher.

It is actually a lot higher than $1100 but I estimate expenses higher, this amount is based on survivor benefits for the spouse and family Blue Cross. Donít forget you will still get SS which I estimated lower along with projected 401k. If you had been invested all in for those 37 years (stock fund) gradually inching up to 15% you would have a much higher amount than 450k.

I will agree if you are a rock star looking to work with cutting edge technology or Fortune 500 company for the big dollars, Federal Service is not for you.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:24 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,072 posts, read 2,899,892 times
Reputation: 23939
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It's been one of the hardest things to get our management to understand. When I'm hiring a physicist for example, I'm not competing with the local chicken plant; I'm competing with companies around the world.
Thank you for the glorious opportunity to speculate why a physicist might be needed at the local chicken plant.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:09 PM
 
11,259 posts, read 8,414,613 times
Reputation: 20427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
Thank you for the glorious opportunity to speculate why a physicist might be needed at the local chicken plant.
I giggled. I'll admit.
I've got so much use-or-lose I tend to give mine to our folks who are really sick and are in the leave donation program.
I've got about a thousand hours of sick leave built up. I think I can cash some of that in when I retire if I remember. Something new I think.
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