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Old 06-21-2019, 07:32 AM
 
Location: HoCo, MD
4,503 posts, read 8,140,956 times
Reputation: 5020

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
Can you explain why most of the applicant data wouldn't be public data? Its a government process to hire government employees and should be available for public scrutiny of their government if there are no health, safety or security issues involved. In my opinion, of course.
I'm sure they have compliance reviews/audits. The results of which are probably available via legal procedures/process.

And the reasoning is going to be to preserve security and privacy concerns. Not to mention having such a capability requires resources to manage.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:38 AM
 
1,551 posts, read 872,227 times
Reputation: 2569
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus2 View Post
I like this idea, but if I left enough detail in my resume to show how it matches the job description, I'm too easily google-able because it's published in a bunch of places.

And the OP was specifically referring to jobs where s/he was deemed qualified and made the first "referral" cut.

Correct. This is a question of test scores (which posting my resume here won't tell me) and how my other people's resumes matches up to their test scores (which posting my resume here won't tell me). And I'm not posting my resume anyway.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:55 AM
 
7,107 posts, read 3,911,048 times
Reputation: 18878
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus2 View Post
I like this idea, but if I left enough detail in my resume to show how it matches the job description, I'm too easily google-able because it's published in a bunch of places.

And the OP was specifically referring to jobs where s/he was deemed qualified and made the first "referral" cut.

Just out of curiosity, what department do you work with, tnff? I doubt I'm qualified either as I've managed to stick myself in a weird little niche, oops.
Being "qualified" means only that you met the minimums to be passed along to the selecting official. That just puts you in the pool with a few hundred others. It does not mean that you will meet the actual requirements of that specific job well enough compared to your competition to be interviewed. For example, out of a thousand resumes that it are "qualified" less than 100 actually have the needed KSAs.

In answer to you question, I am DoD in a national rdt&e center. Our group hires engineers, physicists, chemists, statisticians, material scientists, etc.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:30 AM
 
10,077 posts, read 4,890,797 times
Reputation: 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
Correct. This is a question of test scores (which posting my resume here won't tell me) and how my other people's resumes matches up to their test scores (which posting my resume here won't tell me). And I'm not posting my resume anyway.
Tnff went over the qualified thing above, it's mostly means you passed the HR list of things they are given, so they think you are qualified to perform the job, it doesn't say anything about you being "able" to actually perform it. the application is sent to the hiring manager who then review resume/ksa. The KSAs help determine this part. If the hiring manager like the KSAs, they will "refer" the list of those people back to HR to schedule interviews. Then the interviewer ask things beyond the KSAs (or more in depth, that are job specific to what they need).

Basically, HR doesn't determine if you are "qualified" for the job or not, it isn't up to them to decide. What they are determining is if the application is "qualified" or not to be passed on.

Asking for your "score" before then? Doesn't really matter much if you don't make it to the interview stage, because well you aren't really in the running for it until then. Getting to the interview is just making it to the starting line of the race. You haven't ran it yet so you can't say you were competitive yet or not.

Though each agency has a different interpretation of how vet preference works as well. Basically blaming you not getting the job based on lack of vet points is a disservice to the actual "winners" efforts. They might have vet points or might not, but you didn't lose the job because of them. They got the job because they worked through the process better than you. Whether they are actually good or not, well that's up to the 1-2 year probation period and not part of the application process.

plus you have agencies that have competitive hiring or non-competitive hiring too

once you learn the process, you can get to the interview stage pretty consistently (mostly because you know what grade/series you actually fit into, and you don't over-reach for things anymore, and can focus on the ones you know you can do.)

Since you don't want to say which series/ or even agency you were looking at... can't help you there, but some agencies do have hiring fairs when the managers are there and interviewing (and helping with the application so it doesn't get kicked out for missing information)

edit: my "paragraphs" got confusing upon review :S simple terms, "qualified" = met HR requirements to send to hiring manager, "referred" = hiring manager reviewing application and referring you be on the list to be interviewed. You met the first cut so HR sent your application through, you didn't make the 2nd cut because you weren't referred back to HR for the interview/to start further processing because 1) your KSAs didn't match up, 2) they had better candidates to interview (they aren't going to interview everyone due to cost/time/etc)

plus realistically, about 30% of feds are vets, that means 7 out of 10 aren't vets. but every time a fed hiring post comes up, you'd think 100% of the jobs are filled by vets because everyone claims they lost the job due to vet points.

Last edited by MLSFan; 06-21-2019 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:50 AM
 
916 posts, read 336,058 times
Reputation: 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Being "qualified" means only that you met the minimums to be passed along to the selecting official. That just puts you in the pool with a few hundred others. It does not mean that you will meet the actual requirements of that specific job well enough compared to your competition to be interviewed. For example, out of a thousand resumes that it are "qualified" less than 100 actually have the needed KSAs.

In answer to you question, I am DoD in a national rdt&e center. Our group hires engineers, physicists, chemists, statisticians, material scientists, etc.
tnff, thanks for your response. I do not doubt that there are people who pass the first go-round and still don't have the required qualifications. However, and maybe I'm just kidding myself, is that still the case if I get this response?

Quote:
Not Referred- You are not within reach for consideration due to a qualified preference or priority eligible being referred. If the status of your application should change, your application status will be updated.
Feel free to say I'm full of myself!
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:02 AM
 
10,077 posts, read 4,890,797 times
Reputation: 15401
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus2 View Post
tnff, thanks for your response. I do not doubt that there are people who pass the first go-round and still don't have the required qualifications.
because that's not how those terms are used... being qualified for job (from the point of the series) and being qualified based on qualifications to do the job at that location aren't the same.

example, if the job series is to drive a truck, you having a CDL qualifies you to drive a truck. If the site involves chemicals, then you need your hazmat certs in addition to the CDL. HR would pass on application based on you having a CDL, hiring person would reject application if you leave out the hazmat cert because they need it. not a good example but i can't come up with a better one right now and I saw a CDL school commercial
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:18 AM
 
586 posts, read 250,640 times
Reputation: 1690
Why don't you apply as a Federal Contractor for the agencies and locations you are interested in. Go to Indeed or Clearance Jobs and plug in the agency, location and job type. Once you gain the experience in the agency and build a reputation as a contractor, you can use that experience to apply for the federal openings as they become available in that agency.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:40 AM
 
Location: NYC
13,490 posts, read 9,144,717 times
Reputation: 14881
Some of the Federal jobs requires knowledge of how federal bureaucracy works. They don't have a lot of jobs that uses real-world experience. They want someone who specializes in government policy related experience. Auditing, reviewing contracts, understanding how different government agencies work, having security clearance, and having experience working at a government branch helps a lot.

But don't assume working at the Fed is the be all end all jobs. There are plenty of people there that are frustrated and upset on the job. They just have more leeway and time to shake it off than non-government workers.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:06 AM
 
11,309 posts, read 8,836,808 times
Reputation: 28580
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus2 View Post
tnff, thanks for your response. I do not doubt that there are people who pass the first go-round and still don't have the required qualifications. However, and maybe I'm just kidding myself, is that still the case if I get this response?
Why do you believe this? Are the qualifications so unique that only you and a handful of people are truly qualified?

Can you post the requested qualifications?
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:17 AM
 
916 posts, read 336,058 times
Reputation: 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow View Post
Why don't you apply as a Federal Contractor for the agencies and locations you are interested in. Go to Indeed or Clearance Jobs and plug in the agency, location and job type. Once you gain the experience in the agency and build a reputation as a contractor, you can use that experience to apply for the federal openings as they become available in that agency.
I've been a fed contractor for 17 years. But I can still only apply to the jobs that are open to the public, which drastically reduce the number of opportunities while increasing the competition. It's tough to get a foot in the door, especially for mid-level folks.

MLSfan, you're right, I should have been more intentional with my vocabulary when I used the word "qualified." That said, I think we're also talking about 2 different things. If they deem you unqualified for the position, they will tell you:
Quote:
Application disqualified for lack of experience
If they deem you qualified but not one of the MOST qualified, they will tell you:
Quote:
Sorry, you were not among the best qualified candidates and have not been referred for consideration.
So... there's something other than qualifications going on here. Could be in large part just a numbers game, maybe.
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